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post #401 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-28-2020, 11:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by happyluckbox View Post
I see.... So in this example, it should either take 3 seconds to spin the fans from 40% to 80%, or it should require the specified temp to stay above 80% (when jumping from 40%) for 3 seconds before ramping up?


If that's the case, my chipset fan doesn't seem to be behaving by either of those rules.

I have it set to:
-Below 65, 0% pwm
-Above 65, 40% pwm
-Maximum fan step up/down delay

The instant my chipset gets above 65, the fan jumps to 40, and vice versa when it drops below 65.


Same goes with my other fans
Just tested Z2E 1101 bios and the feature works just like intended.
That being said, I'm not sure if it works with VRM and Chipset fans, since they are probably EC and not SIO controller (despite the controls are there..., I need to ask).

This is Chassis Fan 1 with 12 second (12.75s) step-up target.
Just to better understand how it works, I used a linear curve. Prior the starting point (0.0s) the temperature has been at a point, which according to the user defined curve will produce 0.0% PWM duty cycle. The T1-P1 pair (lower temperature and Min Duty in BIOS), set to 35°C and 0.0% PWM.
The second of the used pairs, Tx-Px (either of the two others available in the bios) is set to 95°C and 100.0% PWM.

At 0.0s the temperature increases from =< 35&#194;&#176;C (which results in 0.0% duty according to the curve) to 95&#194;&#176;C, which results 100.0% PWM duty.
Both the output of the controller and the time elapsed are being measured, so that the delay can be seen.

In most cases the PWM response of the controlled device isn't linear, and because of that the step-up / step-down times must be matched with the true behaviour of the controlled device (through user testing).
Also this function only deals in PWM output value, it doesn't take stuff like RPM into the account.

Code:
Current PWM:   0.000% | Elapsed:  0.1410s
Current PWM:   0.784% | Elapsed:  0.2500s
Current PWM:   1.569% | Elapsed:  0.3600s
Current PWM:   2.353% | Elapsed:  0.4690s
Current PWM:   3.922% | Elapsed:  0.5780s
Current PWM:   4.706% | Elapsed:  0.6880s
Current PWM:   5.490% | Elapsed:  0.7970s
Current PWM:   6.275% | Elapsed:  0.9060s
Current PWM:   7.059% | Elapsed:  1.0160s
Current PWM:   7.843% | Elapsed:  1.1270s
Current PWM:   8.627% | Elapsed:  1.2370s
Current PWM:   9.412% | Elapsed:  1.3480s
Current PWM:  10.196% | Elapsed:  1.4570s
Current PWM:  10.980% | Elapsed:  1.5670s
Current PWM:  11.765% | Elapsed:  1.6760s
Current PWM:  12.549% | Elapsed:  1.7850s
Current PWM:  14.118% | Elapsed:  1.8950s
Current PWM:  14.902% | Elapsed:  2.0040s
Current PWM:  15.686% | Elapsed:  2.1160s
Current PWM:  16.471% | Elapsed:  2.2250s
Current PWM:  17.255% | Elapsed:  2.3360s
Current PWM:  18.039% | Elapsed:  2.4450s
Current PWM:  18.824% | Elapsed:  2.5550s
Current PWM:  19.608% | Elapsed:  2.6640s
Current PWM:  20.392% | Elapsed:  2.7730s
Current PWM:  21.176% | Elapsed:  2.8830s
Current PWM:  21.961% | Elapsed:  2.9920s
Current PWM:  22.745% | Elapsed:  3.1020s
Current PWM:  24.314% | Elapsed:  3.2110s
Current PWM:  25.098% | Elapsed:  3.3200s
Current PWM:  25.882% | Elapsed:  3.4300s
Current PWM:  26.667% | Elapsed:  3.5390s
Current PWM:  27.451% | Elapsed:  3.6490s
Current PWM:  28.235% | Elapsed:  3.7580s
Current PWM:  29.020% | Elapsed:  3.8670s
Current PWM:  29.804% | Elapsed:  3.9770s
Current PWM:  30.588% | Elapsed:  4.0860s
Current PWM:  31.373% | Elapsed:  4.1950s
Current PWM:  32.157% | Elapsed:  4.3070s
Current PWM:  32.941% | Elapsed:  4.4170s
Current PWM:  34.510% | Elapsed:  4.5260s
Current PWM:  35.294% | Elapsed:  4.6360s
Current PWM:  36.078% | Elapsed:  4.7470s
Current PWM:  36.863% | Elapsed:  4.8580s
Current PWM:  37.647% | Elapsed:  4.9670s
Current PWM:  38.431% | Elapsed:  5.0770s
Current PWM:  39.216% | Elapsed:  5.1860s
Current PWM:  40.000% | Elapsed:  5.2950s
Current PWM:  40.784% | Elapsed:  5.4050s
Current PWM:  41.569% | Elapsed:  5.5140s
Current PWM:  42.353% | Elapsed:  5.6240s
Current PWM:  43.137% | Elapsed:  5.7330s
Current PWM:  43.922% | Elapsed:  5.8420s
Current PWM:  45.490% | Elapsed:  5.9520s
Current PWM:  46.275% | Elapsed:  6.0610s
Current PWM:  47.059% | Elapsed:  6.1700s
Current PWM:  47.843% | Elapsed:  6.2800s
Current PWM:  48.627% | Elapsed:  6.3890s
Current PWM:  49.412% | Elapsed:  6.4990s
Current PWM:  50.196% | Elapsed:  6.6080s
Current PWM:  50.980% | Elapsed:  6.7170s
Current PWM:  51.765% | Elapsed:  6.8290s
Current PWM:  52.549% | Elapsed:  6.9380s
Current PWM:  53.333% | Elapsed:  7.0520s
Current PWM:  54.902% | Elapsed:  7.1620s
Current PWM:  55.686% | Elapsed:  7.2730s
Current PWM:  56.471% | Elapsed:  7.3820s
Current PWM:  57.255% | Elapsed:  7.4920s
Current PWM:  58.039% | Elapsed:  7.6010s
Current PWM:  58.824% | Elapsed:  7.7100s
Current PWM:  59.608% | Elapsed:  7.8200s
Current PWM:  60.392% | Elapsed:  7.9310s
Current PWM:  61.176% | Elapsed:  8.0410s
Current PWM:  61.961% | Elapsed:  8.1520s
Current PWM:  62.745% | Elapsed:  8.2610s
Current PWM:  63.529% | Elapsed:  8.3700s
Current PWM:  65.098% | Elapsed:  8.4800s
Current PWM:  65.882% | Elapsed:  8.5890s
Current PWM:  66.667% | Elapsed:  8.6980s
Current PWM:  67.451% | Elapsed:  8.8080s
Current PWM:  68.235% | Elapsed:  8.9170s
Current PWM:  69.020% | Elapsed:  9.0270s
Current PWM:  69.804% | Elapsed:  9.1360s
Current PWM:  70.588% | Elapsed:  9.2470s
Current PWM:  71.373% | Elapsed:  9.3570s
Current PWM:  72.157% | Elapsed:  9.4680s
Current PWM:  72.941% | Elapsed:  9.5770s
Current PWM:  73.725% | Elapsed:  9.6890s
Current PWM:  75.294% | Elapsed:  9.7980s
Current PWM:  76.078% | Elapsed:  9.9100s
Current PWM:  76.863% | Elapsed: 10.0190s
Current PWM:  77.647% | Elapsed: 10.1280s
Current PWM:  78.431% | Elapsed: 10.2380s
Current PWM:  79.216% | Elapsed: 10.3470s
Current PWM:  80.000% | Elapsed: 10.4560s
Current PWM:  80.784% | Elapsed: 10.5660s
Current PWM:  81.569% | Elapsed: 10.6770s
Current PWM:  82.353% | Elapsed: 10.7880s
Current PWM:  83.137% | Elapsed: 10.8980s
Current PWM:  83.922% | Elapsed: 11.0070s
Current PWM:  85.490% | Elapsed: 11.1170s
Current PWM:  86.275% | Elapsed: 11.2260s
Current PWM:  87.059% | Elapsed: 11.3350s
Current PWM:  87.843% | Elapsed: 11.4450s
Current PWM:  88.627% | Elapsed: 11.5540s
Current PWM:  89.412% | Elapsed: 11.6630s
Current PWM:  90.196% | Elapsed: 11.7730s
Current PWM:  90.980% | Elapsed: 11.8820s
Current PWM:  91.765% | Elapsed: 11.9920s
Current PWM:  92.549% | Elapsed: 12.1010s
Current PWM:  93.333% | Elapsed: 12.2100s
Current PWM:  94.118% | Elapsed: 12.3200s
Current PWM:  94.902% | Elapsed: 12.4290s
Current PWM:  96.471% | Elapsed: 12.5380s
Current PWM:  97.255% | Elapsed: 12.6480s
Current PWM:  98.039% | Elapsed: 12.7570s
Current PWM:  98.824% | Elapsed: 12.8700s
Current PWM:  99.608% | Elapsed: 12.9790s
Current PWM: 100.000% | Elapsed: 13.0890s

Thanks Stilt, that explains it better. I still experience fluctuations though because my fans are 3k rpm, and my temperature interval from min to max is narrow (32c-42c), so every step up in temp, I experience a 300 rpm fan shift, albeit I noticed it is delayed by about 20 seconds each time.


Anyways, I was wondering if there were any tips to sort out my memory training issues. My memory is very stable, passed 2000% hci memtest, but occasionally experiences warm boot restarts. Sometimes it restarts once, rarely twice. I was thinking it may be dram boot voltage related, but I couldn't find an option to adjust that anywhere.

AMD Threadripper 3990x || 256GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo @ 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 || Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha || 2080TI FE || Samsung 960 Pro 1TB || Samsung 970 EVO 4TB || Evga 1200 P2 || Meshify S2 || Custom Loop
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post #402 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think there is much, if anything further the manufacturers can do about the DRAM. Whatever options AMD has exposed, are already exposed by the bioses. There is no reason for any manufacturer to hold any of the settings back.

I'd assume most of the DRAM related runtime crashes are temperature related.
Most people are running these platforms with dual rank modules and they get HOT. For example my dual rank B-die modules (4x16GB) run at ~62°C at full load, at 3600MHz and 1.350V.
They can easily do 3600MHz+ 16-16-16 at that voltage at ~ 50°C, but they need to run 16-17-17 to be stable at higher temps as well. Also, keep in mind that the DRAM temperature sensors are reading typically > 7°C lower than the
actual IC temperature is, since the temperature sensor is located in the SPD device, typically around 2cm away from the closest DRAM IC.

Naturally the electrical characteristics of the DIMMs themselves will change with the temperature.
Also, the difference between the different DIMM PCB variants is rather large.
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post #403 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 04:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by happyluckbox View Post
It's actually available on Newegg for about 1000
a link please?

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post #404 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 06:32 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post
I don't think there is much, if anything further the manufacturers can do about the DRAM. Whatever options AMD has exposed, are already exposed by the bioses. There is no reason for any manufacturer to hold any of the settings back.

I'd assume most of the DRAM related runtime crashes are temperature related.
Most people are running these platforms with dual rank modules and they get HOT. For example my dual rank B-die modules (4x16GB) run at ~62°C at full load, at 3600MHz and 1.350V.
They can easily do 3600MHz+ 16-16-16 at that voltage at ~ 50°C, but they need to run 16-17-17 to be stable at higher temps as well. Also, keep in mind that the DRAM temperature sensors are reading typically > 7°C lower than the
actual IC temperature is, since the temperature sensor is located in the SPD device, typically around 2cm away from the closest DRAM IC.

Naturally the electrical characteristics of the DIMMs themselves will change with the temperature.
Also, the difference between the different DIMM PCB variants is rather large.
Exactly why I decided to water cool my ram this time around. I noticed stability until my modules got to 50-52C and then would start throwing errors.

--Intentionally Left Blank--
Glas
(10 items)
CPU
Threadripper 3970x
Motherboard
Asus Zenith Extreme II
GPU
Nvidia RTX 2080 ti
RAM
G.SKILL TridentZ Series DDR4 3600 Model F4-3600C15D
Power Supply
Corsair AX1600i
Cooling
Custom Watercooling
Case
Thermaltake Level 20 XT
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Acer XR382CQK bmijqphuzx
Monitor
Loctek D7H - Heavy Duty Gas Spring Single LCD Arm Stand Monitor Desk Mount
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post #405 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 08:55 AM
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I put direct cooling fans on my ram sticks. 8x32gb at 256gb can run very hot, and even asus recommends upgrading the ram cooling. Anyways, my issues are not with ram temperatures, but occasionally when I restart my pc, it will shut down and then turn back on. Sometimes it has to shut down twice. I heavily suspect dram boot voltage being too low, and was trying to find it in the bios but couldn't..

AMD Threadripper 3990x || 256GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo @ 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 || Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha || 2080TI FE || Samsung 960 Pro 1TB || Samsung 970 EVO 4TB || Evga 1200 P2 || Meshify S2 || Custom Loop
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post #406 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 09:01 AM
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Here's links for 256gb 3600mhz of ram on newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=256gb+3600mhz+tridentz


I picked up my 256gb 3600 for about 1100 last week. Works like a charm on this mobo with my 3990x.

Surprisingly not Samsung B die, but then I realized B die is very temperature temperamental. Since this ram is so dense and packed together, it gets hot, so I guess g skill determined hynix was a better fit.

AMD Threadripper 3990x || 256GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo @ 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 || Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha || 2080TI FE || Samsung 960 Pro 1TB || Samsung 970 EVO 4TB || Evga 1200 P2 || Meshify S2 || Custom Loop

Last edited by happyluckbox; 06-30-2020 at 09:16 AM.
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post #407 of 413 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 09:09 AM
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Btw I found the most curious of oddities.

I'm able to run hcimemtest to >1000% with no errors, but as soon as I pass more than 0.5amps of current through chassis fan 1 header, my ram gets destabilized and will generate errors under 100% coverage.

This is repeatable, as I've tested this 3 times now. I'm thinking the extra volts/amps passing through that header (which is right next to the ram) is somehow creating a magnetic field/electrical disturbance/signal loss that is causing instability.


I discovered this issue after I started getting memtest errors and the only change I made was putting in a Y splitter to chassis header 1. Rerouted to a fan hub so that chassis header 1 was only supplying pwm signal and tach, and low and behold no more errors.

Has anybody ever heard of anything like this? My build is in my sig.

AMD Threadripper 3990x || 256GB G.Skill TridentZ Neo @ 3600mhz 18-22-22-42 || Asus Zenith 2 Extreme Alpha || 2080TI FE || Samsung 960 Pro 1TB || Samsung 970 EVO 4TB || Evga 1200 P2 || Meshify S2 || Custom Loop

Last edited by happyluckbox; 06-30-2020 at 09:15 AM.
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post #408 of 413 (permalink) Old 07-01-2020, 11:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by happyluckbox View Post
Btw I found the most curious of oddities.

I'm able to run hcimemtest to >1000% with no errors, but as soon as I pass more than 0.5amps of current through chassis fan 1 header, my ram gets destabilized and will generate errors under 100% coverage.

This is repeatable, as I've tested this 3 times now. I'm thinking the extra volts/amps passing through that header (which is right next to the ram) is somehow creating a magnetic field/electrical disturbance/signal loss that is causing instability.


I discovered this issue after I started getting memtest errors and the only change I made was putting in a Y splitter to chassis header 1. Rerouted to a fan hub so that chassis header 1 was only supplying pwm signal and tach, and low and behold no more errors.

Has anybody ever heard of anything like this? My build is in my sig.

I haven't heard of anything like that before.

But I haven't really analyzed the power supply for fans and if they are intermingled with other stuff before.

I do know motors can have really bad feedback and make the powerfactor terrible. Not really EMI. but more making the DC supply and ground noisy. maybe the fans borrow from the DRAM supply?

I use fan controllers on my system and draw power directly from the PSU, and only feed PWM and tach to each header.

--Intentionally Left Blank--
Glas
(10 items)
CPU
Threadripper 3970x
Motherboard
Asus Zenith Extreme II
GPU
Nvidia RTX 2080 ti
RAM
G.SKILL TridentZ Series DDR4 3600 Model F4-3600C15D
Power Supply
Corsair AX1600i
Cooling
Custom Watercooling
Case
Thermaltake Level 20 XT
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Acer XR382CQK bmijqphuzx
Monitor
Loctek D7H - Heavy Duty Gas Spring Single LCD Arm Stand Monitor Desk Mount
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post #409 of 413 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 06:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by happyluckbox View Post
Here's links for 256gb 3600mhz of ram on newegg:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=256gb+3600mhz+tridentz


I picked up my 256gb 3600 for about 1100 last week. Works like a charm on this mobo with my 3990x.

Surprisingly not Samsung B die, but then I realized B die is very temperature temperamental. Since this ram is so dense and packed together, it gets hot, so I guess g skill determined hynix was a better fit.
Hmm, there is a 3600CL16 kit too

Reduce memory clock to 3200 and try CL16 - should help you with stability.

My GPUsWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
3dfx Voodoo, 2x3dfx Voodoo 2, Voodoo 3, Creative Riva TNT 2 Ultra, GeForce 256, ATi Radeon 3D Rage Fury MAXX, GeForce 2 Ultra, ATi Radeon DDR 7500, ATi Radeon 8500, ATi Radeon 9000 Pro, ATi Radeon 9800 XT, ATi Radeon X600 XT, ATi Radeon X850 XT, GeForce 8800GTX, ATi Radeon X1650 XT, GeForce GTX 280, ATi Radeon HD 2900XT, ATi Radeon HD 3870 X2, GeForce GTX 480, ATi Radeon HD 7970 (x2), GeForce GTX 780Ti, GeForce Titan Black (x4), GeForce 970 (x2), GeForce Titan X (x19), AMD RadeonProDuo (x2), GeForce 1080 (x2), Titan X (Pascal) (x2), EVGA FTW 1080 (x2), Quadro P6000 (x2), 1080Ti FE (x2), Titan Xp (x2), TITAN V+ 1080Ti (x2)
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post #410 of 413 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 07:45 AM
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Hi,

I just buy Zenith II Extrem on Amazon wharehouse, and I want to test it to be sure everythin's ok !
But I have one problem for the moment, all fans are lock at 100%, even the vrm. Temps seem good (less 60°). What worries me is that the vrm fan cable was disconnected by the previous owner. Known problem or just a bad setting ?

Edit : ah the full speed mode switch on the board Better on off !

Last edited by HitJacker; 07-02-2020 at 09:16 AM.
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