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Yet another B450 board for Ryzen 2000/3000?

 
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Yet another B450 board for Ryzen 2000/3000?

Hello! Yet another person asking for recommendations for a motherboard for Ryzen 2000 and maybe 3000 far into the future.

I sold my i7 3770K for a price of a new Ryzen 2600 so I'm now planning to build a 2nd Rig! No point buying a 1155 board to replace the one that blew up when I could sell the cpu and get a AM4 board. ( The board the 3770K was in blew up )

My current plan is to get either a Ryzen 2600 or Ryzen 2700, then use the Wraith Prism that came with my 3700X and overclock the snot out of it or use the NH-D15 if it needs it.

The most common recommendation would probably be the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max but I don't quite like the fact it barely has board RGB zones, no ARGB ports, and ALC892 instead of the more common and I guess better 1220.. Also Realtek Lan vs Intel but I honestly don't know why people prefer Intel LAN in the first place.

So I'm looking at the Gigabyte B450 Pro Wifi and ASUS B450-E. How much of a downgrade would those be in terms of VRM performance and temperature?

The system is going to be housed in a NZXT Switch 810 with either the Wraith Prism or NH-D15 so there's some airflow over the VRM.

Ambient temps can go as high as 40c and below at the summer months.

Overclocking would be as much as I can get out of the 2600 and 2700, then for memory would be 16GB 2x8 in either 3200 or 3600 that I'm going to be tweaking to get CL14 and CL16 respectively.


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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 10:09 AM
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MSI is the king of B450 as far as performance/VRMs go. The tomahawk and gaming pro carbon AC seem to have the best price/performance. ASRock has some good boards as well

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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 11:46 AM
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MSi B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC at $130 (usually it's this much, though lately I've seen it occasionally spike to $150 which is where I'd start recommending X570 boards instead). Basically same great VRM as the Tomahawk/Tomahawk MAX, just doubled (uses doublers so it's 4x2 instead of just 4). Also swaps out Realtek LAN with Intel LAN and gives you an Intel 9260 WLAN card (2x2 Wi-Fi AC and Bluetooth 5.0; the Tomahawk MAX is usually $115 and the price of a standalone 9260 w/ an M.2 to PCIe x1 adapter is usually $30+ so it's a good deal if you wanted Wi-Fi or Bluetooth for anything). Also has a bunch of RGB headers.

Quote: Originally Posted by MSi
1 x 2pin LED Power connector
2 x 5050 RGB LED strip 12V connectors (JRGB1~2)
1 x WS2812B Individually Addressable RGB LED strip 5V connector (JRAINBOW1)
1 x CORSAIR connector (JCORSAIR1)
https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-.../Specification

It has the ALC1220 but I don't really think you should ever consider onboard audio. The ALC1220 chip itself can give an SNR of 120 dB but every single overall motherboard implementation I've seen never even gives you a SINAD that's close (SINAD is a measurement that combines SNR and THD to give you the effective dynamic range. It's used to calculate the Effective Number of Bits/ENOB of dynamic range a circuit gives you). For example, the MSI MPG Z390 which has an ALC1220 only gives a meager SINAD of 88dB which is far below the 96-98.08 dB minimum (depending on your ENOB equation) to get 16 bits of dynamic range (the bit depths of the majority of audio files).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...o-carbon.7138/

You'd only need a 20 bit ENOB/120 dB dynamic range if you're somewhere like an anechoic chamber for transparent audio reproduction since the noise in normal listening environments is higher than the -120 dB noise floor.

For reference, the $8-9 Apple USB-C to 3.5mm headphone adapter has a SINAD of 99 dB which is already audibly transparent in normal listening environments. It's more or less made every single DAC + Amp setup south of $150-$200 irrelevant unless you're driving high impedance and or low efficiency headphones. It's a USB UAC 2 devices so it's plug and play on Windows 10, macOS, Linux, Android, and iOS (some caveats on Android where some phones try to bypass the adapter's Cirrus Logic DAC+Amp+ADC).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...adapters.5541/

Edit: The preference for Intel over Realtek LAN is mostly from anecdotes of people having more issues with Realtek drivers than Intel drivers. I don't think it's really anything to worry about.

Last edited by HybridCore; 12-08-2019 at 05:40 PM.
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-09-2019, 11:13 PM
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VRM performance is a meme if you're just using low bins cpu, unless you are in hard manual overclocking with custom loops or stuff like that, on my C7H hero i never saw my VRM above 45c with D15.
Even 3900x/3950x don't need much power either... instead, go look for a brand that has good support and bios like gigabyte.
Asus will be a massive downgrade to your experience with ryzen 3k.

look at this

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Last edited by Synoxia; 12-09-2019 at 11:28 PM.
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hydroplane View Post
MSI is the king of B450 as far as performance/VRMs go. The tomahawk and gaming pro carbon AC seem to have the best price/performance. ASRock has some good boards as well
Features on the Tomahawk seems to be lacking. Then the Pro Carbon AC seems too expensive and does not come in the Max version.

Quote: Originally Posted by HybridCore View Post
MSi B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC at $130 (usually it's this much, though lately I've seen it occasionally spike to $150 which is where I'd start recommending X570 boards instead). Basically same great VRM as the Tomahawk/Tomahawk MAX, just doubled (uses doublers so it's 4x2 instead of just 4). Also swaps out Realtek LAN with Intel LAN and gives you an Intel 9260 WLAN card (2x2 Wi-Fi AC and Bluetooth 5.0; the Tomahawk MAX is usually $115 and the price of a standalone 9260 w/ an M.2 to PCIe x1 adapter is usually $30+ so it's a good deal if you wanted Wi-Fi or Bluetooth for anything). Also has a bunch of RGB headers.



https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/B450-.../Specification

It has the ALC1220 but I don't really think you should ever consider onboard audio. The ALC1220 chip itself can give an SNR of 120 dB but every single overall motherboard implementation I've seen never even gives you a SINAD that's close (SINAD is a measurement that combines SNR and THD to give you the effective dynamic range. It's used to calculate the Effective Number of Bits/ENOB of dynamic range a circuit gives you). For example, the MSI MPG Z390 which has an ALC1220 only gives a meager SINAD of 88dB which is far below the 96-98.08 dB minimum (depending on your ENOB equation) to get 16 bits of dynamic range (the bit depths of the majority of audio files).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...o-carbon.7138/

You'd only need a 20 bit ENOB/120 dB dynamic range if you're somewhere like an anechoic chamber for transparent audio reproduction since the noise in normal listening environments is higher than the -120 dB noise floor.

For reference, the $8-9 Apple USB-C to 3.5mm headphone adapter has a SINAD of 99 dB which is already audibly transparent in normal listening environments. It's more or less made every single DAC + Amp setup south of $150-$200 irrelevant unless you're driving high impedance and or low efficiency headphones. It's a USB UAC 2 devices so it's plug and play on Windows 10, macOS, Linux, Android, and iOS (some caveats on Android where some phones try to bypass the adapter's Cirrus Logic DAC+Amp+ADC).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...adapters.5541/

Edit: The preference for Intel over Realtek LAN is mostly from anecdotes of people having more issues with Realtek drivers than Intel drivers. I don't think it's really anything to worry about.
Quote: Originally Posted by Synoxia View Post
VRM performance is a meme if you're just using low bins cpu, unless you are in hard manual overclocking with custom loops or stuff like that, on my C7H hero i never saw my VRM above 45c with D15.
Even 3900x/3950x don't need much power either... instead, go look for a brand that has good support and bios like gigabyte.
Asus will be a massive downgrade to your experience with ryzen 3k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J69aiJJEHzQ look at this
You sure you monitoring the right sensor? My X570 Pro Wifi with a 3700X idles at 61c on the hottest VR Loop.

That's with maxed PBO, but still on idle. Also using a H100i with a bit of airflow.


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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 12-10-2019, 10:50 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Speedster159 View Post
Features on the Tomahawk seems to be lacking. Then the Pro Carbon AC seems too expensive and does not come in the Max version.
The Carbon has BIOS flashback so if you happen to receive a board without an up-to-date bios, you can flash it without a CPU installed to get Ryzen 3000 support.

It will change from the full ClickBIOS GSE to ClickBIOS GSE-Lite due to size limitations of the BIOS ROM chip but the featureset is identical. The only thing that's changed is the graphics (personally I think the lite BIOS is better than the graphic heavy one).

https://www.msi.com/blog/the-latest-...es-motherboard

I'm not sure about the Philippines but the Carbon is usually only $130 US, which is only $15 more than the Tomahawk MAX but with a far better feature set.
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