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Is x570 enough + also what mobo ?

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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-20-2020, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Is x570 enough + also what mobo ?

Hey guys, im in a wee bit of pickle with what x570 mobo should i buy ?

Needs / specs

1200w hx smps corsair
2080ti x 3 blower ( no sli )
3950x / 3900x
2tb 970 pro nvme pcie.3
4tb evo pro x 2
14tb helium enterprise drives x 2
128 gigs of ram
nhd15

My workload is more gpu than cpu oriented, and maybe some occasional gaming if i get the time. Now is it possible to use all of this without being bottle necked on pcie lanes as im not using any pcie4 stuff (dont see the need nvme is already fast enough).

Now the contenders asus x570 ws ace, aorus master x570 ( what i looked up ) if any other options are there pls help me.

Now on to my workload yes im a content creator and also use ml/ai ( for a friend ) so by the day im pushing out renders, edits, videos.Sometimes i also let my friend knock out his ml/ai stuff ( he has a rig, but sometimes uses mine) so yeah that's it basically.

I would do prefer the post code led and dual bios but asus has a gpu bracket for multiple gpu. No im not goind trx40 as that would be overkill and last gen was a mess, also intel x299x ( seriously who does their branding+marketing) doent seem worth it compared to ryzen 3 gen.

But if ryzen is no bueno then intel x299x does seem to be the only option. But pls let me know.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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any idea ? anyone ?
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 09:12 AM
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I personally have an MSI MEG X570 Ace. It is a great board but has only 4 SATA ports, but it also has 3 M.2 slots. There are other boards of course that have 6 SATA. The MSI MEG X570 Unify is pretty much the same as the Ace without the LED over the VRM and one less RJ-45. Both have built in WiFi and great VRM's.

MSI MEG X570 Ace
AMD Ryzen 9 3900x
Corsair H115i Platinum, Corsair Crystal 570x RGB Case
32GB Corsair Vengence RGB Pro 3600 @3800
MSI Geforce RTX 2080 Super Ventus SX OC w/ Acer Predator X34P
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 12:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by w00dstock View Post
Hey guys, im in a wee bit of pickle with what x570 mobo should i buy ?

Needs / specs

1200w hx smps corsair
2080ti x 3 blower ( no sli )
3950x / 3900x
2tb 970 pro nvme pcie.3
4tb evo pro x 2
14tb helium enterprise drives x 2
128 gigs of ram
nhd15

My workload is more gpu than cpu oriented, and maybe some occasional gaming if i get the time. Now is it possible to use all of this without being bottle necked on pcie lanes as im not using any pcie4 stuff (dont see the need nvme is already fast enough).

Now the contenders asus x570 ws ace, aorus master x570 ( what i looked up ) if any other options are there pls help me.

Now on to my workload yes im a content creator and also use ml/ai ( for a friend ) so by the day im pushing out renders, edits, videos.Sometimes i also let my friend knock out his ml/ai stuff ( he has a rig, but sometimes uses mine) so yeah that's it basically.

I would do prefer the post code led and dual bios but asus has a gpu bracket for multiple gpu. No im not goind trx40 as that would be overkill and last gen was a mess, also intel x299x ( seriously who does their branding+marketing) doent seem worth it compared to ryzen 3 gen.

But if ryzen is no bueno then intel x299x does seem to be the only option. But pls let me know.
Well - what means bottlenecked?
Is you use case very bandwith bound?
If you run 3 2080 TI - the first two will run at x8 and the 3rd at x4.
X8 won’t matter much – but x4 could be a constraint.

Everything else in your list should work without any constraints - the NVME drive in Slot one runs from the CPU.

Schematics for the Aorus Boards can be found here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=193...PdjQQ3xZwShiAD

For your specific use case you could also take a look at this board:
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards...pecifications/

As it offers U.2-Slots which might be interesting in case you want to install some u.2-NVME-SSDs at some Point...

…or this one with 2 Thunderbolt 2 Slots + 10GBit LAN:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X570%20Creator/index.asp

And I would definitely go for a 3950x.

Greetings,
Medizinmann
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 01:23 AM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Excuse me @w00dstock , but you shouldn't focus only on the past aka mind this generation without clear knowledge what the exact issue was with 2nd gen threadripper
It where the numa nodes and split dual avx256 instruction set split as symmetrical 128bit one
Although, even first gen with the same "issues" where no issues in tinkering hands

ML/AI does focus on GPU render if you tell it to do so, but it can be focused on AVX256/512 render
"Too overkill" but yet we look at 3900X and higher
I'm confused

What exactly is overkill ?
Core amounts ? Price ? Power draw ?
The NUMA Node days are gone , that where first gen days
Your next best bet with pcie lanes is Intel's Scalable Xeon lineup
But they performed worse, are hotter and cost more ~ but its not AMD soo might be a preferred option
Its also a preferred option for strictly AVX512 workloads
AMDs low core count EPIC lineup might be another option if it runs AVX512 , but both enterprise platforms likely are under numa nodes ~ soo unless you have no issues with it (doubt by your comment against 2nd gen TR), I mean you know your option by now don't you

If the 2080Tis run in x8 pcie 4.0 it will be enough bandwith
But x8 3.0 does bottleneck it already
Same as the titan V was bottlenecked and the 1080ti scratched on x16 perf, I mean was close
The 2080ti is indeed now very close and the current titan is at the limits

No, x8 for a 2080ti is not enough
But there are u.2 or dimm.2 expansion cards for the NVMes you want to use, as chipset bandwith is enough this generation
Even tho only 4x 4.0 lanes go back from the chipset
You have more than that to use, just there will be load balancing if you ever cap out pcie 4.0 bandwith

There not many options you have
Either tensor cores doesn't use the full x16 bandwith
Or you need all the lanes you can get your hands on
No middle points, consumer ryzen was never ment to have more than 2 GPUs
Be it APU+x16 or dual x8 GPUs ~ sorry
Also for Intel's consumer lineup its 16+4+4
(last 4 are 16 lanes from the chipset with again 4 only back to the CPU)

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Last edited by Veii; 02-25-2020 at 01:33 AM.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 01:40 AM
Stock is too casual~
 
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Oh I actually forgot another option
I don't think thunderbolt 3 would be enough for a 2080ti
* love the x570 creator BTW ~ but its ugly

But your another maybe even better option would be setting up a network/local NUMA Node with two 3600X
Or even dual 3900X to benefit from the L3 cache&bandwith under tiny DTX systems with dual rank 32gb dimms
And 2 NVMes in each (DIMM.2 slot)

I'm very confident you can run machine learning under multi layered local nodes
And might next to TR4 be the other best option for getting perf up & having enough lanes for GPU accelerated rendering
* I remember my 1950X mining days with multi x399M custom loop setups

Just that aside, be sure to double-check SPI4 epic 3rd gen
If it also doesn't run on NUMA Nodes
As that would be likely the other scalable option for low corecount but high lane amount

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Ml/AI is my friends thing not mine, but would like to learn more about it.The way he said it was me interpreting as "yada yada, something something tensor cores and nvidia's ai learning stack". Now i have zero idea abt ml and ai stuff but he is using it for some data and image training like that captcha stuff.

On my side im a digital designer so rendering, designing, some vfx in vegas and premiere pro.Which include both cpu and gpu utilization so there's that.

ace Well, you lads have certainly cleared up the 3 or 2 gpu solution. One last clarification cause board diagrams are not decipherable to me, will even the asus Pro-WS-X570-ACE wont be able to run all 3 cards at x8 gen 3.


@veli i was not aware that pcie gen 3 x8 bottlenecked 2080ti but after a quick googlefu techpower article this one : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/n...scaling/6.html says its a 1-3% diff. which doesnt sound that big
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 04:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by w00dstock View Post
Ml/AI is my friends thing not mine, but would like to learn more about it

@veii i was not aware that pcie gen 3 x8 bottlenecked 2080ti but after a quick googlefu techpower article this one : https://www.techpowerup.com/review/n...scaling/6.html says its a 1-3% diff. which doesnt sound that big
This results are interesting and surprising
I wonder if its only games related
They fully mismatch out of everything I saw beforehand
I will need to look up under some professional workloads from pudgetsystems and similar on what kind of task the difference was big
Just rember the 1080ti was around 75-80% under memory intensive renders and the titan XPpascal one was near 90
Where the current titan is scratching if not already bottlenecked by 3.0 x16 , although I remember it was just 2-3% over it which counted as fine & barely noticable

I'll look closer, am curious now why especially games like battlefield get no hit on x8 , well overall games seem to show only around 10ish % up to resolution

Threadripper nor a 3950X would be bad for gaming
As cores sleep when they are unused letting preferred cores hit higher frequency
Even TR is fine enough for gaming with quad channel, although a bit stupid ~ tho still leads to higher fps than ryzen consumer

It might be fine if you go dual GPU ryzen, pair that with 3600mhz CL16 neos or any other known dual rank memory at this timings and speed
And later when your friend needs to scale it up, just do it like every other big company and make a tiny computing/folding pool of two identical ryzens
Then at least you would not only have storage shutdown failsafe
But also be able to expand it

Tho , be sure you have 10gibt support and dual ethernet, as you can't spare lanes for SFP+ 10Gbit pcie cards
Thunderbolt is very useful in the audio/video space
(DAW DACs, Screens, VR, External Gear and storage)
And I'd likely aim for the Creator, as the AQUA is overpriced

But in reality only 10gbit interests you for the cross-pc connection in the future, if you want to upscale and make a render farm
The tiny Asus impact DTX is an awesome overclocker, but eh no thunderbolt idk
I also think it came with 5gbit not 10

MSI unify would be a recommendable x570 board
(not that you need x570 at all)
But 10gbit dual ethernet
Put your focus on that, so you can potentially build a render farm
Else a TR4 would bruteforce its way through any kind of cuda comparable video render/export speedups

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 04:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Excuse me @w00dstock , but you shouldn't focus only on the past aka mind this generation without clear knowledge what the exact issue was with 2nd gen threadripper
It where the numa nodes and split dual avx256 instruction set split as symmetrical 128bit one
Although, even first gen with the same "issues" where no issues in tinkering hands

ML/AI does focus on GPU render if you tell it to do so, but it can be focused on AVX256/512 render
"Too overkill" but yet we look at 3900X and higher
I'm confused
For me a 3900x 3950x is pretty much enough and dont need ecc mem.

Quote:

What exactly is overkill ?
Core amounts ? Price ? Power draw ?
The NUMA Node days are gone , that where first gen days
Your next best bet with pcie lanes is Intel's Scalable Xeon lineup
But they performed worse, are hotter and cost more ~ but its not AMD soo might be a preferred option
Its also a preferred option for strictly AVX512 workloads
AMDs low core count EPIC lineup might be another option if it runs AVX512 , but both enterprise platforms likely are under numa nodes ~ soo unless you have no issues with it (doubt by your comment against 2nd gen TR), I mean you know your option by now don't you
I dont need avx512 for my workloads as far as i know

Quote:
If the 2080Tis run in x8 pcie 4.0 it will be enough bandwith
But x8 3.0 does bottleneck it already
Same as the titan V was bottlenecked and the 1080ti scratched on x16 perf, I mean was close
The 2080ti is indeed now very close and the current titan is at the limits

No, x8 for a 2080ti is not enough
But there are u.2 or dimm.2 expansion cards for the NVMes you want to use, as chipset bandwith is enough this generation
Even tho only 4x 4.0 lanes go back from the chipset
You have more than that to use, just there will be load balancing if you ever cap out pcie 4.0 bandwith
Need some clarification here bud that how is the impact of running 2080ti in x8 gen3, as in what is the percentage

Quote:
There not many options you have
Either tensor cores doesn't use the full x16 bandwith
Or you need all the lanes you can get your hands on
No middle points, consumer ryzen was never ment to have more than 2 GPUs
Be it APU+x16 or dual x8 GPUs ~ sorry
Also for Intel's consumer lineup its 16+4+4
(last 4 are 16 lanes from the chipset with again 4 only back to the CPU)
IF not ryzen then maybe a 10920x or 10940x
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 05:02 AM
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If you want a more Workstation oriented motherboard, seems like the ASRock X570 Creator is a better suited for this.

Has 10G and 2.4Ghz Wifi (if you ever need it), 2x M.2 slots and 8 SATA3 ports.

NO motherboard will support 3 GPUs in x8/x8/x8 configuration.

In x8, the 2080 Ti will work okay, but at x4 it will get bottlenecked, but this depends on the workload. If its pure compute workload, where the assets are loaded in the VRAM once, it will not matter.

http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/...%20Creator.pdf

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Main rig
(16 items)
Parents (2nd) PC
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Hard Drive
Corsair ForceLS SSD
Hard Drive
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