VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 340 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

Forum Jump: 

VRM on the new AM4 motherboards

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3391 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 548
Rep: 21 (Unique: 19)
Was already updated a day or such back.

NEW: Biostar x480GT8 ~4.0Ghz CPU, 3200Mhz RAM.... not really better
OLD: Ryzen 7 1700 @ ~4.0Ghz, Gigabyte GA-AB350 Gaming 3, F25 BIOS Agesa 1.0.0.6
4x8Gb Kingston HX434C19FB2K2/16 3466C19 1.2V @ 3733Mhz 16.(17).23.17.34.71.tRFC 568 1T 1.490V (Micron E-die 16nm)
Corsair LPX 2x8Gb 2666C16R @ 3200Mhz 14.(17).17.17.31.49...(260) 1T1.470V (Micron B-die 25nm)
Nighthog is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3392 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 12:25 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Ramad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 879
Rep: 111 (Unique: 61)
Ramad is offline  
post #3393 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 09:48 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 32
Rep: 0
chowbaby

Quote: Originally Posted by Ramad View Post
The Asrock X570 TaiChi is looking good:https://translate.google.com/transla...6ckattempt%3D1
when it says this about the fan:

▲ The number of revolutions monitored in the BIOS is over 4500 rpm and the temperature of the chipset is around 61 degrees.

They are referring to the max right?
chowbaby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3394 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 10:09 PM
⤷ αC
 
AlphaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,694
Rep: 872 (Unique: 575)
T124010BL fan is max 5000rpm (40x40mm) so that seems about right


http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?...ssid=74&id=119
T for triangle frameless rather than square frame

12 is likely the voltage, 40 is likely the diameter , 10 is likely height in mm

I think the B stands for ball bearing , so S probably stands for sleeve or "EBR" which might be a glorified sleeve bearing.
L probably stands for low speed (U = 8000RPM ; M = 6000RPM).


exact model number without (2): https://www.newegg.com/p/1DR-002T-005T1

► Recommended GPU Projects: [email protected] , [email protected] (FP64) (AMD moreso) ► Other notable GPU projects: [email protected] (Nvidia), GPUGrid (Nvidia) ► Project list



Last edited by AlphaC; 06-24-2019 at 10:14 PM.
AlphaC is offline  
post #3395 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 11:27 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 32
Rep: 0
chowbaby

Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
T124010BL fan is max 5000rpm (40x40mm) so that seems about right


http://www.cooljagusa.com/index.php?...ssid=74&id=119
T for triangle frameless rather than square frame

12 is likely the voltage, 40 is likely the diameter , 10 is likely height in mm

I think the B stands for ball bearing , so S probably stands for sleeve or "EBR" which might be a glorified sleeve bearing.
L probably stands for low speed (U = 8000RPM ; M = 6000RPM).


exact model number without (2): https://www.newegg.com/p/1DR-002T-005T1
You think this will spawn a x570 aftermarket 40mm fan replacement market?
chowbaby is offline  
post #3396 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 12:25 PM
⤷ αC
 
AlphaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,694
Rep: 872 (Unique: 575)
I think that a complete cooling solution with a heatpiped heatsink and a fan bracket could probably be made. Every single x570 uses the same size chipset, it's only down to the mounting holes and clearances.

Something similar to what Thermalright used to make would likely work if clearance is alright.
http://thermalright.com/product/hr-05-sliifx/

Clearance would be like so:
Click image for larger version

Name:	Thermalright_HR-05_SLI_IFX_9.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	190.2 KB
ID:	276400
(Image from https://www.extremeoverclocking.com/...SLI_IFX_4.html)


alternative installation orientation:
Click image for larger version

Name:	21.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	109.0 KB
ID:	276402
(source: https://bigbruin.com/2008/hr05ifxsli_4)



This is especially a good proposition for less expensive X570 boards which likely use cheaper fans but might have half decent VRM for the CPU. At 15W you could probably use a CPU heatsink designed for slim 15W ultrabook CPUs as they typically have a heatpipe to transfer heat elsewhere. 6mm heatpipe can already transport at least 40W and 8mm can do 60W , those are the two options below 11mm height of the fan from the Taichi (which would allow for <15mm with mounting hardware). This would solve the clearance issue for high end GPUs which are typically over 9.5" long these days. Obviously this voids warranty.

Looking at 11mm tall copper heatsinks you have Enzotech's CNB-S1L http://www.enzotechnology.com/cnb_s1l.htm
For a 15W chip if it's around 5°C/W for the Enzotech heatsink without even accounting for thermal resistance of the chipset itself and the thermal pad in between, it's going to be hitting over 105°C which is likely going to fry. Obviously a heatpiped solution (to avoid the clearance problem) with more fin area is needed.

For example the X570 Aorus Elite might be worth changing in this fashion since chipset heatsink is not integrated into the M.2 heatsink setup. This means the whole chipset heatsink can be removed without affecting the M.2 slots. Something built with the M.2 shroud as part of the chipset cooling solution as the MSI Ace, Taichi or Steel Legend are not conducive to any modification. Lower end boards such as the MSI Gaming Plus simply aren't worth thinking about since the VRM just adds doublers over the B450 versions ; the MSI Pro Carbon and Edge have the chipset cooling a part of a M.2 shroud as well.

Clearance is at least 4x2" with 10-15mm Z height on the Aorus Elite. It might be closer to 4 x 2.5" (metric I would presume ~100x60mm).
Click image for larger version

Name:	x570 chipset clearance.png
Views:	12
Size:	738.2 KB
ID:	276398

Obviously upgrading your cheap fan with another cheap fan isn't going to solve anything. I think the best option is to have a 90mm+ fluid dynamic bearing (i.e not sleeve or ball bearing) fan permanently on the chipset at 1000-1200RPM except with cross-flow rather than radial blower style. That way the air doesn't get recycled and you retain front to back airflow in all normal orientation ATX cases.

P35 was a 16W TDP chipset too. People are losing their minds over a 16W TDP... when it's been done easily without using a fan even if people don't find heatpiped heatsinks attractive in their RGB light boxes.
Click image for larger version

Name:	intel p35.png
Views:	29
Size:	1.37 MB
ID:	276396

► Recommended GPU Projects: [email protected] , [email protected] (FP64) (AMD moreso) ► Other notable GPU projects: [email protected] (Nvidia), GPUGrid (Nvidia) ► Project list



Last edited by AlphaC; 06-25-2019 at 12:56 PM.
AlphaC is offline  
post #3397 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 03:24 PM
Mentally Insane User
 
99belle99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 301
Rep: 3 (Unique: 3)
99belle99 is offline  
post #3398 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 10:53 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
Heuchler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,615
Rep: 236 (Unique: 179)
igorsLAB x570 semi-pass chipset cooling

igorsLAB released some info a week ago - semi-pass chipset cooling


The Balanced Mode is expected to equal the default setting, stating that the fan will not start until it reaches 72 ° C chipset temperature and then operates at 3,000 RPM or 40 percent of maximum RPM. From 80 ° C to 3,600 rev / min and from 95 ° C to 5,000 rev / min accelerated. What kind of noise is expected, but remains unclear. If the level falls below 50 ° C again, the fan shuts off.

In Silenced Mode , the temperature thresholds are higher and the speeds lower, which promises quieter overall performance. Starting at 75 ° C, the fan should start at 2,400 rpm and be accelerated from 85 ° C to 3,000 rpm and 4,000 rpm from 95 ° C. Since the fan switches off again when the temperature falls below 70 ° C, the phases of the passive and silent cooling should be much longer than in Balanced Mode.

The best possible cooling with the highest noise level at the same time is provided by the Boost Mode , where the fan starts at 3,600 rpm from 70 ° C and increases up to 5,500 rpm from 95 ° C. As in Balanced Mode, the fan shuts off again at less than 50 ° C.


Semi-passive modes with fan curves for X570 cooling
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06/...ssiv-kuehlung/

based on information from circles of motherboard manufacturers and explicitly names three modes for chipset cooling on the motherboards X570 Ace and X570 Godlike of the manufacturer MSI, which are based on general guidelines (thermal guidelines) and thus at least in a similar form for Mainboards of other manufacturers could apply.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	x570-Fan-Curves.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	57.2 KB
ID:	276488  


Overclocking History (Click to show)
Intel 386DX/16 @ 20 MHz
CX486SLC/50 @ 50 MHz
AM486DX2/80 @ 100 MHz
AM486 DX4-100 @ 120 MHz
AK5x86-P75 [email protected] 160 MHz
Pentium 90 @ 120 Mhz
IBM 6x86L P166+ [email protected] 160 MHz
Celeron 300a @ 454 MHz
Pentium 3 700 @ 933 MHz
Athlon XP 1400+ @ 1600 MHz
Athlon XP 1800+ @ 2088 MHz
Athlon XP 2500+ @ 2200 MHz
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2603 MHz
Athlon X2 BE2300 @ 1900 MHz
Athlon X2 4200+ @ 2210 MHz
Athlon X2 5000+ @ 2600 MHz
Core 2 Duo E4300 @ 3000 MHz
Core 2 Duo E6750 @ 3600 MHz
Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 4000 MHz
Xeon C2Q L5408 @ 3200 MHz
Xeon C2Q X5450 @ 3300 MHz
Xeon C2Q E5440 @ 3400 MHz
Xeon C2Q E5450 @ 3600 MHz
Phenom2 X4 B50 @ 3700 MHz
Phenom2 X6 1045T @ 4050 MHz
Core i5-2500K Sandy @ 4500 MHz
X5650 6-Core Westmere @ 3982 MHz
AMD FX 8320E Black Edition

FX-8320E @4.5GHz, X5650 @ 4.0GHz, X6 1045T @4.0GHz, i7 [email protected]
Thinkpad T420p with i7-2720QM overclocked because this is OCN
Heuchler is offline  
post #3399 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 10:59 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
Heuchler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,615
Rep: 236 (Unique: 179)
Ryzen 1800x compatible with MSI X570 MEG Ace [PC Games Hardware test]

Overclocking History (Click to show)
Intel 386DX/16 @ 20 MHz
CX486SLC/50 @ 50 MHz
AM486DX2/80 @ 100 MHz
AM486 DX4-100 @ 120 MHz
AK5x86-P75 [email protected] 160 MHz
Pentium 90 @ 120 Mhz
IBM 6x86L P166+ [email protected] 160 MHz
Celeron 300a @ 454 MHz
Pentium 3 700 @ 933 MHz
Athlon XP 1400+ @ 1600 MHz
Athlon XP 1800+ @ 2088 MHz
Athlon XP 2500+ @ 2200 MHz
Athlon 64 3000+ @ 2603 MHz
Athlon X2 BE2300 @ 1900 MHz
Athlon X2 4200+ @ 2210 MHz
Athlon X2 5000+ @ 2600 MHz
Core 2 Duo E4300 @ 3000 MHz
Core 2 Duo E6750 @ 3600 MHz
Core 2 Duo E8400 @ 4000 MHz
Xeon C2Q L5408 @ 3200 MHz
Xeon C2Q X5450 @ 3300 MHz
Xeon C2Q E5440 @ 3400 MHz
Xeon C2Q E5450 @ 3600 MHz
Phenom2 X4 B50 @ 3700 MHz
Phenom2 X6 1045T @ 4050 MHz
Core i5-2500K Sandy @ 4500 MHz
X5650 6-Core Westmere @ 3982 MHz
AMD FX 8320E Black Edition

FX-8320E @4.5GHz, X5650 @ 4.0GHz, X6 1045T @4.0GHz, i7 [email protected]
Thinkpad T420p with i7-2720QM overclocked because this is OCN
Heuchler is offline  
post #3400 of 3497 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 01:18 PM
⤷ αC
 
AlphaC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 10,694
Rep: 872 (Unique: 575)
Quote: Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post
igorsLAB released some info a week ago - semi-pass chipset cooling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5bXKwJQxBU&t=252s


The Balanced Mode is expected to equal the default setting, stating that the fan will not start until it reaches 72 ° C chipset temperature and then operates at 3,000 RPM or 40 percent of maximum RPM. From 80 ° C to 3,600 rev / min and from 95 ° C to 5,000 rev / min accelerated. What kind of noise is expected, but remains unclear. If the level falls below 50 ° C again, the fan shuts off.

In Silenced Mode , the temperature thresholds are higher and the speeds lower, which promises quieter overall performance. Starting at 75 ° C, the fan should start at 2,400 rpm and be accelerated from 85 ° C to 3,000 rpm and 4,000 rpm from 95 ° C. Since the fan switches off again when the temperature falls below 70 ° C, the phases of the passive and silent cooling should be much longer than in Balanced Mode.

The best possible cooling with the highest noise level at the same time is provided by the Boost Mode , where the fan starts at 3,600 rpm from 70 ° C and increases up to 5,500 rpm from 95 ° C. As in Balanced Mode, the fan shuts off again at less than 50 ° C.

Semi-passive modes with fan curves for X570 cooling
https://www.computerbase.de/2019-06/...ssiv-kuehlung/

based on information from circles of motherboard manufacturers and explicitly names three modes for chipset cooling on the motherboards X570 Ace and X570 Godlike of the manufacturer MSI, which are based on general guidelines (thermal guidelines) and thus at least in a similar form for Mainboards of other manufacturers could apply.
I used to own an older Firepro (Pre-GCN) that has a blower style fan that is more or less that model fan on the Taichi (in terms of size). Even at idle I could hear it. The Firepro I replaced it years ago with runs fan at ~1000 RPM and at full load ~1200RPM. That's on par with top performing dual fan coolers from aftermarket card vendors.

Spoiler!


I'd be very skeptical of any motherboard manufacturer's claims that a 3000RPM fan is quiet. They're not putting in "state of the art" (to PCs at least) Noctua liquid crystal polymer fans with below 1mm tip clearance on these boards , they're using OEM sleeve or ball bearings with cheap plastic (i.e. vibration and blade flex) as they use on GPUs except with smaller fan diameters.

In fact the x570 Taichi's fan was used on some GPUs.

The reason you have ~3000RPM as ~40% is the defacto fan voltages are 5, 7, 9, and 12V. MSI definitely went overkill on the fan RPM, a lower max RPM fan should have been chosen for finer control over RPM especially on a board such as the Ace. Maybe it's a Powerlogic * fan they already are using on their GPUs.

The MSI ace is able to get away with more heat dissipation before fan spins up because the main VRM heatsink is connected to the chipset heatsink. For their lower end boards don't expect miracles.

* Powerlogic makes GPU fans for ASUS, EVGA, Gigabyte, and MSI. Asrock seems to use FirstD on their Phantom Gaming GPUs.

► Recommended GPU Projects: [email protected] , [email protected] (FP64) (AMD moreso) ► Other notable GPU projects: [email protected] (Nvidia), GPUGrid (Nvidia) ► Project list


AlphaC is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (0 members and 3 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off