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post #3641 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-21-2020, 10:52 AM
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With the garbage economy I think the B550 range will have great uptake , especially since they are well featured and are missing the long term noise/reliability concerns of a chipset fan.

From Asrock's site

Taichi is "16 phase" DrMos 50A (this includes SOC side so it's either 2 PWMs or it's inflated in some other way , typically doubled or parallel/teamed), 12k hr Nichicon caps and heatpipe , debug LED/ Power & reset , Intel 2.5G LAN (i225-V) , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550 PG Velocita -- "14 phase" (12+2 or 10+4) DrMos 50A with heatpipe , debug LED/Power & reset , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550 Extreme4 -- "14 phase" (12+2 or 10+4) debug LED/Power & reset
B550 Steel Legend -- "14 Power Phase Design" (12+2 or 10+4) DrMos , debug LED
B550 Pro4 --- "8 power phase design" (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550 Phantom Gaming 4 --- "8 power phase design" (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax --- 8 Power Phase Design, Digi Power, 90A Dr.MOS ; Intel 2.5G LAN , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550M Steel Legend (mATX) --- 10 Power Phase Design, Dr. MOS
B550M Pro4 (mATX) --- 8 Power Phase Design (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550M-HDV --- 6 Power Phase Design with no heatsinks whatsoever ... low end board on low end chipset so don't expect miracles especially with one look at the board itself : you'd probably use it for a Ryzen APU or a quadcore <65W that isn't stressed

From ASUS' site
ROG Strix B550-E Gaming --- "14+2 power stage VRM" (very likely 7+1 teamed or doubled) + debug LED (Intel I225-V 2.5Gb) + TB3 internal header + USB 3.2 front panel header, supposedly $279 per Toms HW USA (the unreliable site)
ROG Strix B550-F Gaming --- "12+2 power stage VRM" (very likely 6+1 teamed or doubled) ; Intel I225-V 2.5Gb + TB3 internal header
ROG Strix B550-I Gaming --- "8+2 DrMOS" supposedly $229 per Toms HW USA (the unreliable site) ; Intel I225-V 2.5Gb + TB3 internal header , USB 3.2 front panel header
TUF Gaming B550-Plus --- "8+2 DrMOS"
TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi) --- unlisted
Prime B550-Plus --- unlisted , don't expect miracles with that flange heatsink and similar layout to the B550 lowend from them
Prime B550M-A (Wi-Fi) --- expect Vishay Powerpaks --- expected price $134
Prime B550M-K --- basically low end board on low end chipset , 4x Vishay Powerpaks with doubled low side


From Gigabyte's site
B550 Aorus Master - 14 CPU phases direct from Infineon PWM heatpiped , 70A powerstages , debug LED + dual BIOS
B550 Aorus Pro - 12+2 DrMos but picture has a doubler from Intersil so it might be something with ISL6617 doubler
B550 Aorus Elite - might be doubled design 12+2 DrMos claiming 700A total, Apaq caps (like ASUS), no heatpipe (the X570 version was ~$200)
B550 GAMING X - low end board on low end chipset , don't expect miracles (the X570 version is $170)
B550I AORUS PRO AX - 8x90A powerstage "direct", right off their site
B550 VISION D - no info on their site about the existence of it , Two Intel i211AT per Toms HW US (2x TB3 per the spreadsheet)

Someone PMed me the list directly : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=449426075

From MSI's site (they really need to redeem their X570 midrange/low end , even if X570 Tomahawk was released as a bandaid)
MPG B550 Gaming Carbon WIFI -- 12+2+1 Digital Power with Doubler Design : image shows IR3599 or similar IR doubler , IR35201 controller and 12x CPU phases with TDA21462 60A phases
MPG B550 Gaming Edge WIFI -- 8+2+1
MPG B550I Gaming Edge WIFI -- 8+2+1
MPG B550 Gaming Plus
MAG B550M Tomahawk -- "10+2+1 Duet Rail Power System"
MAG B550M Mortar WIFI -- 8+2+1 Duet Rail
--- see https://storage-asset.msi.com/global...MORTAR-VRM.jpg , the WIFI version has a image labeled Z490

MAG B550 Bazooka
B550-A Pro -- 10+2+1 Powerpaks


B550M Pro-VDH WIFI - low end board on low end chipset

TL;DR: more of the same thing for the most part except flagships / ITX and MSI's need to fix their low end lineup.


Quote: Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
The Gigabyte B550 AORUS Master comes with 14+2 phase 70A stages from direct 16-phase controller.

It doesn't state the components but if they are the same as The X570 AORUS Xtreme I'm gonna laugh.
TDA21472 70A & XDPE123G5C.

You now get the previous top tier at a much cheaper price.
It's an early adopter tax as with anything like PCIE 4.0 / Adaptive sync / 4K / RTX / DX12 capable GPUs / etc. If the technology is able to be brought to mainstream, how is that not a win for the average consumer? Also since it's in a volume product the cost is amortized.

It's still missing the value adds of X570 such as multiple PCIE 4.0 add-in cards at full speed , front panel USB 3.2 10Gb/s, a physical BIOS switch, power/reset , right angle power connectors, and 10G LAN even if that isn't relevant for over 90% of the consumer base. For compatibility reasons , Aquantia 10G + 1G Intel LAN is a higher tier than a Realtek LAN even if it is 2.5G Realtek LAN instead of a 1G Intel LAN.

You have to take into account from a ROI point of view it is doubtful the Xtreme even was going to ROI even with the high cost. It also had the tooling for custom metal overlays and heatsinking rolled into the cost, not just the power delivery. For waterblocks and such with a higher volume than a one time board it already exceeds ~$100 per piece.

If you look at the feature-set , for non overclockers the Aorus range is okay but then there are things other vendors do better. For example the entire B550 lineup uses Realtek LAN and is missing front panel USB 3.2 gen2 or whatever you want to call it that is 10Gbps (it's a B550 limitation probably needing added chips i.e. more expenses on the Bill of Materials if it was added).

Anyone worth their salary over at ASUS marketing is probably going to be plastering the fact that they have 2.5G LAN from Intel rather than Realtek because Gigabyte and MSI aren't using Intel. Since Intel acquired Rivet Networks recently (i.e. Killer LAN) there's only two main players other than Aquantia: Intel + Realtek.

----

Also, this is probably one of the only posts I will be putting here about this matter. My efforts in the past were because nobody bothered and just spouted out the marketing spiel from the reviewers' guides, I'm not going to duplicate efforts for no good reason. VRM topics are quite mainstream now (on every single tech site , even by people with zero engineering background) so if people actually put in maybe 10 minutes of research instead of complaining about boards after they buy them on a impulse buy then maybe this would not be a problem. HWinfo NL typically does testing , even if full settings are not provided. Techspot even did a full stack overview in video form for the youtube generation, so if people can't find that don't bother to read that I don't know what to say.

You should be able to find full lineup information with part numbers from Gigabyte Matt or toppclin from MSI. Don't expect any full disclosure from ASUS, they even rebrand their PWMs to connive people into thinking their boards have something special that makes them magic.

► Recommended GPU Projects: [email protected] , [email protected] (FP64) (AMD moreso) ► Other notable GPU projects: [email protected] (Nvidia), GPUGrid (Nvidia) ► Project list



Last edited by AlphaC; 05-21-2020 at 11:34 AM.
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post #3642 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-21-2020, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I think the B550 AORUS Master is coming to be a top seller with that VRM configuration.

There seems to be improvements in regard to Memory Layout throughout the Gigabyte Line-up. We have XMP 5000 support. I hope it's more than just marketing.

In regard to the topic of VRM, we got it going good now. No longer something forgotten to consider for most. Was another matter when this thread was started.

Gigabyte Matthew is no longer around, no representative here on the forums as I've seen as of late. There is one active on reddit though. GBT_Brian

I've been busy updating the first page lists.

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME, Ryzen 7 3800X PBO boost, 2x8GB 4866/1900 18.27.24.48.90.tRFC 680 1T 1.650V [Micron Rev.J]
4x8GB 3800/1900 13.23.17.30.66.tRFC 600 1T 1.700V Kingston HX434C19FB2K2/16 3466C19 1.2V (Micron Rev.E 19nm [D9VPP]),
2x8GB Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Micron Rev.J 17nm),
2x8GB 3866/1933 15.21.20.32.60.tRFC 448 1T 1.590V Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Hynix DJR 17nm)
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post #3643 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-21-2020, 11:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
With the garbage economy I think the B550 range will have great uptake , especially since they are well featured and are missing the long term noise/reliability concerns of a chipset fan.

From Asrock's site

Taichi is "16 phase" DrMos 50A (this includes SOC side so it's either 2 PWMs or it's inflated in some other way , typically doubled or parallel/teamed), 12k hr Nichicon caps and heatpipe , debug LED/ Power & reset , Intel 2.5G LAN (i225-V) , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550 PG Velocita -- "14 phase" (12+2 or 10+4) DrMos 50A with heatpipe , debug LED/Power & reset , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550 Extreme4 -- "14 phase" (12+2 or 10+4) debug LED/Power & reset
B550 Steel Legend -- "14 Power Phase Design" (12+2 or 10+4) DrMos , debug LED
B550 Pro4 --- "8 power phase design" (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550 Phantom Gaming 4 --- "8 power phase design" (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax --- 8 Power Phase Design, Digi Power, 90A Dr.MOS ; Intel 2.5G LAN , USB 3.2 front panel header
B550M Steel Legend (mATX) --- 10 Power Phase Design, Dr. MOS
B550M Pro4 (mATX) --- 8 Power Phase Design (6+2?) , no mention of DrMos so it's likely Sinopower , NIKOs or something like that Asrock has used before
B550M-HDV --- 6 Power Phase Design with no heatsinks whatsoever ... low end board on low end chipset so don't expect miracles especially with one look at the board itself : you'd probably use it for a Ryzen APU or a quadcore <65W that isn't stressed

From ASUS' site
ROG Strix B550-E Gaming --- "14+2 power stage VRM" (very likely 7+1 teamed or doubled) + debug LED (Intel I225-V 2.5Gb) + TB3 internal header + USB 3.2 front panel header, supposedly $279 per Toms HW USA (the unreliable site)
ROG Strix B550-F Gaming --- "12+2 power stage VRM" (very likely 6+1 teamed or doubled) ; Intel I225-V 2.5Gb + TB3 internal header
ROG Strix B550-I Gaming --- "8+2 DrMOS" supposedly $229 per Toms HW USA (the unreliable site) ; Intel I225-V 2.5Gb + TB3 internal header , USB 3.2 front panel header
TUF Gaming B550-Plus --- "8+2 DrMOS"
TUF Gaming B550M-Plus (Wi-Fi) --- unlisted
Prime B550-Plus --- unlisted , don't expect miracles with that flange heatsink and similar layout to the B550 lowend from them
Prime B550M-A (Wi-Fi) --- expect Vishay Powerpaks --- expected price $134
Prime B550M-K --- basically low end board on low end chipset , 4x Vishay Powerpaks with doubled low side


From Gigabyte's site
B550 Aorus Master - 14 CPU phases direct from Infineon PWM heatpiped , 70A powerstages , debug LED + dual BIOS
B550 Aorus Pro - 12+2 DrMos but picture has a doubler from Intersil so it might be something with ISL6617 doubler
B550 Aorus Elite - might be doubled design 12+2 DrMos claiming 700A total, Apaq caps (like ASUS), no heatpipe (the X570 version was ~$200)
B550 GAMING X - low end board on low end chipset , don't expect miracles (the X570 version is $170)
B550I AORUS PRO AX - 8x90A powerstage "direct", right off their site
B550 VISION D - no info on their site about the existence of it , Two Intel i211AT per Toms HW US (2x TB3 per the spreadsheet)

Someone PMed me the list directly : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=449426075

From MSI's site (they really need to redeem their X570 midrange/low end , even if X570 Tomahawk was released as a bandaid)
MPG B550 Gaming Carbon WIFI -- 12+2+1 Digital Power with Doubler Design : image shows IR3599 or similar IR doubler , IR35201 controller and 12x CPU phases with TDA21462 60A phases
MPG B550 Gaming Edge WIFI -- 8+2+1
MPG B550I Gaming Edge WIFI -- 8+2+1
MPG B550 Gaming Plus
MAG B550M Tomahawk -- "10+2+1 Duet Rail Power System"
MAG B550M Mortar WIFI -- 8+2+1 Duet Rail
--- see https://storage-asset.msi.com/global...MORTAR-VRM.jpg , the WIFI version has a image labeled Z490

MAG B550 Bazooka
B550-A Pro -- 10+2+1 Powerpaks


B550M Pro-VDH WIFI - low end board on low end chipset

TL;DR: more of the same thing for the most part except flagships / ITX and MSI's need to fix their low end lineup.



It's an early adopter tax as with anything like PCIE 4.0 / Adaptive sync / 4K / RTX / DX12 capable GPUs / etc. If the technology is able to be brought to mainstream, how is that not a win for the average consumer? Also since it's in a volume product the cost is amortized.

It's still missing the value adds of X570 such as multiple PCIE 4.0 add-in cards at full speed , front panel USB 3.2 10Gb/s, a physical BIOS switch, power/reset , right angle power connectors, and 10G LAN even if that isn't relevant for over 90% of the consumer base. For compatibility reasons , Aquantia 10G + 1G Intel LAN is a higher tier than a Realtek LAN even if it is 2.5G Realtek LAN instead of a 1G Intel LAN.

You have to take into account from a ROI point of view it is doubtful the Xtreme even was going to ROI even with the high cost. It also had the tooling for custom metal overlays and heatsinking rolled into the cost, not just the power delivery. For waterblocks and such with a higher volume than a one time board it already exceeds ~$100 per piece.

If you look at the feature-set , for non overclockers the Aorus range is okay but then there are things other vendors do better. For example the entire B550 lineup uses Realtek LAN and is missing front panel USB 3.2 gen2 or whatever you want to call it that is 10Gbps (it's a B550 limitation probably needing added chips i.e. more expenses on the Bill of Materials if it was added).

Anyone worth their salary over at ASUS marketing is probably going to be plastering the fact that they have 2.5G LAN from Intel rather than Realtek because Gigabyte and MSI aren't using Intel. Since Intel acquired Rivet Networks recently (i.e. Killer LAN) there's only two main players other than Aquantia: Intel + Realtek.

----

Also, this is probably one of the only posts I will be putting here about this matter. My efforts in the past were because nobody bothered and just spouted out the marketing spiel from the reviewers' guides, I'm not going to duplicate efforts for no good reason. VRM topics are quite mainstream now (on every single tech site , even by people with zero engineering background) so if people actually put in maybe 10 minutes of research instead of complaining about boards after they buy them on a impulse buy then maybe this would not be a problem. HWinfo NL typically does testing , even if full settings are not provided. Techspot even did a full stack overview in video form for the youtube generation, so if people can't find that don't bother to read that I don't know what to say.

You should be able to find full lineup information with part numbers from Gigabyte Matt or toppclin from MSI. Don't expect any full disclosure from ASUS, they even rebrand their PWMs to connive people into thinking their boards have something special that makes them magic.
no more gigabyte matt, he is now in amd as far as i know.
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post #3644 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder what ASUS uses on the STRIX for power stages, they don't mention Dr.MOS so not Vishay, maybe Infineon IR powerstages or have they gone with Intersil? They don't mention doublers or direct drive so their usual 2x per phase stuff which indicates some IR power stages, no idea on Amperage rating. ASP14015I as controller if IR power stages.

IR3555 60A as they have used before? But the STRIX B550-F & STRIX B550-E have different kinds. the B550-E are larger.
They aren't IR3553 40A ones at least. Those are smaller.

AS usual they aren't forthcoming with data sheets. Only Gigabyte provided a spreadsheet for their better boards. Most images aren't good enough to read the parts.

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME, Ryzen 7 3800X PBO boost, 2x8GB 4866/1900 18.27.24.48.90.tRFC 680 1T 1.650V [Micron Rev.J]
4x8GB 3800/1900 13.23.17.30.66.tRFC 600 1T 1.700V Kingston HX434C19FB2K2/16 3466C19 1.2V (Micron Rev.E 19nm [D9VPP]),
2x8GB Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Micron Rev.J 17nm),
2x8GB 3866/1933 15.21.20.32.60.tRFC 448 1T 1.590V Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Hynix DJR 17nm)
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post #3645 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 01:45 AM
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seems like B550 was rushed to take some heat off comet lake.
No prices (except Assus), no reviews, nothing.
B550, 4000 APU and 3000XT, all pre-announced with 3-6 weeks away.
That sucks.
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post #3646 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 01:53 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
I wonder what ASUS uses on the STRIX for power stages, they don't mention Dr.MOS so not Vishay, maybe Infineon IR powerstages or have they gone with Intersil? They don't mention doublers or direct drive so their usual 2x per phase stuff which indicates some IR power stages, no idea on Amperage rating. ASP14015I as controller if IR power stages.

IR3555 60A as they have used before? But the STRIX B550-F & STRIX B550-E have different kinds. the B550-E are larger.
They aren't IR3553 40A ones at least. Those are smaller.

AS usual they aren't forthcoming with data sheets. Only Gigabyte provided a spreadsheet for their better boards. Most images aren't good enough to read the parts.

Are there any pictures available?
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post #3647 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by elmor View Post
Are there any pictures available?
Only the official product page images. But you only get a general look on how the power stages look like, not part numbers. Asus is kinda vague in their descriptions.

STRIX B550-F
https://dlcdnimgs.asus.com/websites/...nce/show-5.png

STRIX B550-E
https://dlcdnimgs.asus.com/websites/...nce/show-5.png

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME, Ryzen 7 3800X PBO boost, 2x8GB 4866/1900 18.27.24.48.90.tRFC 680 1T 1.650V [Micron Rev.J]
4x8GB 3800/1900 13.23.17.30.66.tRFC 600 1T 1.700V Kingston HX434C19FB2K2/16 3466C19 1.2V (Micron Rev.E 19nm [D9VPP]),
2x8GB Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Micron Rev.J 17nm),
2x8GB 3866/1933 15.21.20.32.60.tRFC 448 1T 1.590V Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Hynix DJR 17nm)
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post #3648 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 02:02 AM
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MPG B550 Gaming Carbon WIFI at 250$ would be good?

By Built-in Benchmark Queen:
My 2.5 years old delidded 7980xe @ 4600mhz all core with 49ns memorylatency (4000c16 twekaed) is faster than 3950x max overclocked on water in every scenario. Pretty good for a ancient cpu
In gaming it has no chance vs my new 10900k @ 5400mhz and 4600c16 tweaked memory. ~35ns memorylatency.
2nd AMD Build
(10 items)
CPU
2700
Motherboard
470
GPU
5700
RAM
3466/14
Hard Drive
1000
Power Supply
700
Case
212
Operating System
10/64
Monitor
55/2160
Keyboard
M100
▲ hide details ▲
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post #3649 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by rdr09 View Post
MPG B550 Gaming Carbon WIFI at 250$ would be good?
You get:
MPG B550 GAMING CARBON WIFI 14-phase[12+2]* | Infineon TDA21462 60A, PWM: Infineon IR35201(8-phase), PCB: 2oz 6-Layer, *doubler(IR3591)

Seems kinda decent enough if you ask me. Only the Gigabyte Aorus Master seems better with 70A stages instead at the moment and 16-phase controller.
B550 AORUS MASTER 16-phases[14+2] | Infineon TDA21472 70A, PWM: Infineon XDPE132G5C(16-phase), PCB: 2oz 6-Layer

Gigabyte X570 AORUS XTREME, Ryzen 7 3800X PBO boost, 2x8GB 4866/1900 18.27.24.48.90.tRFC 680 1T 1.650V [Micron Rev.J]
4x8GB 3800/1900 13.23.17.30.66.tRFC 600 1T 1.700V Kingston HX434C19FB2K2/16 3466C19 1.2V (Micron Rev.E 19nm [D9VPP]),
2x8GB Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Micron Rev.J 17nm),
2x8GB 3866/1933 15.21.20.32.60.tRFC 448 1T 1.590V Kingston HX436C17FB3K2/16 3600C17 1.35V (Hynix DJR 17nm)
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post #3650 of 3699 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 02:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post
You get:
MPG B550 GAMING CARBON WIFI 14-phase[12+2]* | Infineon TDA21462 60A, PWM: Infineon IR35201(8-phase), PCB: 2oz 6-Layer, *doubler(IR3591)

Seems kinda decent enough if you ask me. Only the Gigabyte Aorus Master seems better with 70A stages instead at the moment and 16-phase controller.
B550 AORUS MASTER 16-phases[14+2] | Infineon TDA21472 70A, PWM: Infineon XDPE132G5C(16-phase), PCB: 2oz 6-Layer
Thanks for the info. Really have no idea how these two compare to a similarly priced X570s, which do not seem to exist anymore. Looking at 250$ max for a board that might be one time use. Just need to update one more rig for another family member still using Sandy.

Rep to you and op.

EDIT: Also it will come down to BIOS support. MSI seems to win in that dept.

By Built-in Benchmark Queen:
My 2.5 years old delidded 7980xe @ 4600mhz all core with 49ns memorylatency (4000c16 twekaed) is faster than 3950x max overclocked on water in every scenario. Pretty good for a ancient cpu
In gaming it has no chance vs my new 10900k @ 5400mhz and 4600c16 tweaked memory. ~35ns memorylatency.
2nd AMD Build
(10 items)
CPU
2700
Motherboard
470
GPU
5700
RAM
3466/14
Hard Drive
1000
Power Supply
700
Case
212
Operating System
10/64
Monitor
55/2160
Keyboard
M100
▲ hide details ▲

Last edited by rdr09; 05-23-2020 at 02:38 AM.
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