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RAM speeds, tuning and Ryzen 2 - completely confused

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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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RAM speeds, tuning and Ryzen 2 - completely confused

Hi there,
I have a build with a 2700X (stock speeds) on an MSI X470 Gaming M7 AC motherboard, and two kits of Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB RAM (cmw16gx4m2c3600c18). I haven't been able to get the RAM stable at any realistic speed for gaming.
When I bought the parts, I wasn't aware of how tricky and how important getting the RAM to work with the Ryzen kit was, and I followed the advice of a local magazine which basically stated "buy the fastest RAM you can afford for Ryzen". Nor was I aware of how timings factored into how fast RAM was; I simply went on the MHz rating.
I was lucky in that the RAM sets I picked (bought as two different kits; yes, I know it's not the best way of getting RAM, but spreading the cost was a necessity) are apparently Samsung B-die, which I'm hearing is a good thing.
I've tried applying the default XMP profiles (one at 3600mhz, one at 3333mhz), but both have been somewhat unstable and MemTest86 has been throwing huge amounts of errors.
At this point, I basically need an idiot's guide to making it work as well as possible. I have come across the Ryzen RAM calculator, but it's all gobbledygook to me.
With no tweaks in the BIOS, this RAM seems to default to a speed of 2133MHz, but obviously that's nowhere near what it's supposed to be capable of. I've seen recommendations of tweaking voltages for both the RAM and SOC, and I'm completely overwhelmed as to how to make this work right, and work stable.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 08:16 AM
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2933MHz at 1.4v to the ram 16-16-16-16-36 with one kit installed.

Give that a whirl.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, that’s stable-ish, in that it hasn’t thrown twenty errors in 5 minutes of MemTest. However, it doesn’t reboot properly: the debug LED stops at 61, which is apparently “NVRAM initialisation”, so I’m hesitant to call it “working” based on that.

EDIT: Scratch that, turns out that was a USB issue causing the hang on boot. Changed a hub to a different connector and it’s working.

EDIT 2: Well, it seems to be a different issue, anyway. I'll make the USB work with reboot later. For now, unplug all the things and move on. RAM in the 2x8 config is good so far.

Last edited by RedIon1992; 03-05-2019 at 04:33 AM.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 05:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RedIon1992 View Post
OK, that’s stable-ish, in that it hasn’t thrown twenty errors in 5 minutes of MemTest. However, it doesn’t reboot properly: the debug LED stops at 61, which is apparently “NVRAM initialisation”, so I’m hesitant to call it “working” based on that.

EDIT: Scratch that, turns out that was a USB issue causing the hang on boot. Changed a hub to a different connector and it’s working.

EDIT 2: Well, it seems to be a different issue, anyway. I'll make the USB work with reboot later. For now, unplug all the things and move on. RAM in the 2x8 config is good so far.
I too bought a 3600mhz kit, I was able to get 3000mhz stable with lower timings. I also tried 3200mhz, but was noticing some instability. I'm on first gen. ryzen however, so my IMC is a bit more finicky. So long as you enter your Dram voltage manually and SMC voltage to recommended, you should be able to get at least 3000mhz or more. Check for bios updates, they have made several improvements since launch to memory compatibility.

If you can't get higher than 3000mhz, try lowering your base timings, as you may still get a significant benefit without running at the rated speed.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 08:37 AM
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It's probably because it's Corsair RAM with CL18. If you read your label and it says v4.31 you're in luck since that's B-die, v5.39 is Hynix. If it were GSkill you'd have better luck generally, they have 3600C18 that is Hynix CJR rather than MFR (the worst , usually 3200C16 with 16-18-18-38 or 16-16-16-36) or AFR (3200C14 or 3200C16 out of the box).



I'd try 2933MHz CL16-18-18-38 and work from there.


Run Thaiphoon burner and see what kind of memory ICs you have. Usually you need 1.35-1.4V memory voltage no matter what memory it is unless you're running JEDEC specs (2133-2400MHz).



Match it up with the QVL

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/supp...support-mem-14


and also peruse memory calculator:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-a...-dram-am4.html

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-05-2019, 10:12 AM
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Corsair has a history of being very finicky with the AMD platform in my experience. Seems tightly binned to what it will run assuming an intel platform.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-08-2019, 01:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
It's probably because it's Corsair RAM with CL18. If you read your label and it says v4.31 you're in luck since that's B-die, v5.39 is Hynix. If it were GSkill you'd have better luck generally, they have 3600C18 that is Hynix CJR rather than MFR (the worst , usually 3200C16 with 16-18-18-38 or 16-16-16-36) or AFR (3200C14 or 3200C16 out of the box).



I'd try 2933MHz CL16-18-18-38 and work from there.


Run Thaiphoon burner and see what kind of memory ICs you have. Usually you need 1.35-1.4V memory voltage no matter what memory it is unless you're running JEDEC specs (2133-2400MHz).



Match it up with the QVL

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/supp...support-mem-14


and also peruse memory calculator:
https://www.overclock.net/forum/13-a...-dram-am4.html
Both kits are v4.31, and I’d previously checked Thaiphoon which gave me a B-die result before starting the thread. The calculator was also part of my prior investigation, but I had trouble understanding it.

The kit isn’t listed on the QVL - I’d never had issues with RAM in any previous builds, and assumed as long as it was the right DDR spec number and size (DIMM, not SODIMM), it would work. The closest listed is a CMW64GX4M8C3200C16. Based on http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=80808 , the differences are: 8x8GB compared to my 2x2x8GB; 8 modules to the kit compared to my 2x2 (although with only four RAM slots, that’s a bit misleading; all these tests would have been done at a max of 32GB); a rated speed of 3200MHz compared to my 3600MHz; and a CAS latency of 16 compared to my 18. Enough there to raise an eyebrow (especially on the CAS latency), but not a lot I can do at this point.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mattb2e View Post
I too bought a 3600mhz kit, I was able to get 3000mhz stable with lower timings. I also tried 3200mhz, but was noticing some instability. I'm on first gen. ryzen however, so my IMC is a bit more finicky. So long as you enter your Dram voltage manually and SMC voltage to recommended, you should be able to get at least 3000mhz or more. Check for bios updates, they have made several improvements since launch to memory compatibility.

If you can't get higher than 3000mhz, try lowering your base timings, as you may still get a significant benefit without running at the rated speed.
Already on latest BIOS, so that’s not an issue. The default voltage is around the 1.2 range by default, though. Now running 1.4V. Latest number of AGESA listed in the patch notes is 1.0.0.6, though that was from a few patches back; since then, it’s just listed unspecified compatibility fixes.

Now trying a four-module 2933MHz 16-18-18-18-38 setup; will report back after overnight testing.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 02:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Good news: 2933MHz 16-18-18-18-38 was stable.

Better news: 3000MHz 16-16-16-16-36 was stable.

Bad news: 3200MHz 16-16-16-16-36 started throwing errors.

So the question now is, which way do I go? Loosen the timings in the quest for more MHz, or try to tighten them at the 3000Mhz point?
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 02:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RedIon1992 View Post
Good news: 2933MHz 16-18-18-18-38 was stable.

Better news: 3000MHz 16-16-16-16-36 was stable.

Bad news: 3200MHz 16-16-16-16-36 started throwing errors.

So the question now is, which way do I go? Loosen the timings in the quest for more MHz, or try to tighten them at the 3000Mhz point?
Not 100% positive, but I think 3000mhz cl16 is faster than 3200 cl18. I would stick with the 3000mhz with lower timings. There will be a negligible difference between 3000mhz and 3200mhz in real world tasks.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-09-2019, 04:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by RedIon1992 View Post
Good news: 2933MHz 16-18-18-18-38 was stable.

Better news: 3000MHz 16-16-16-16-36 was stable.

Bad news: 3200MHz 16-16-16-16-36 started throwing errors.

So the question now is, which way do I go? Loosen the timings in the quest for more MHz, or try to tighten them at the 3000Mhz point?
Quote: Originally Posted by Mattb2e View Post
Not 100% positive, but I think 3000mhz cl16 is faster than 3200 cl18. I would stick with the 3000mhz with lower timings. There will be a negligible difference between 3000mhz and 3200mhz in real world tasks.
Your secondary timings might be too tight from your default XMP speed, motherboard may not adjust with auto settings. You may have to manually tweek secondaries for 3200MHz plus. I am learning Ryzen memory as well. I have Samsung D-Die in 4GB modules. I have found a wide range of speeds I can boot at and even run fairly stable, but the latency is way too high. So far my latency increases with bandwith....even with the same exact timings. I can reach 50GB/s memory read @ 3400 CL16 w/around 80ns of latency, or I can reach 32GB/s @ 3066 CL16 w/ 68ns of latency. Same timings. Ugh.

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