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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Best Budget X570 Motherboard?

I've been reading reviews and watching VRM summaries for all the new X570 boards. I upgrade my CPU once every 8 years or so (See current 2500K) but I upgrade my video card every 2-3 years. X570 is the obvious choice because of the PCIE 4 and faster NVME drive support. My usage case doesn't require anything fancy, all I do is game and overclocking looks pretty much impossible on all the new AMD chips. 

I've narrowed my selections down to the following, which would you pick and why?

MSI Performance Gaming MPG X570 Gaming Plus
Best chipset fan reviews on Reddit. Users say it's idle until the chipset hits high 50s temp and is super quiet. I can see where the chipset power fan connects to the motherboard so I suspect it may be replaceable, that's a critical feature if you plan on keeping it for 8 years! Looks like a really elegant board layout. Has optical and USB-C which I'll use for sure. The M2 is ABOVE the GPU, again smart design. VRMs sound good enough for a 3700x and 3900x, not certain about 3950 but the chances that I upgrade the CPU are pretty much non-existent. Only downside is only 6 Sata ports.

GIGABYTE X570 GAMING X
Heard a lot of concerning things about high fan speeds and noise on the chipset on reddit but apparently Gigabyte is working on a firmware update to correct this. I don't love the board layout because I don't see a front USB connector. I have an ancient Fractal Design Define XL (V2) that I want to keep using. It doesn't have optical audio out or a USB 3 V2 type B connector which are both stupid things to exclude. I'd have spend another $30 CAD to have those features which is annoying.

ASRock X570 PHANTOM GAMING 4
The Taichi has horrible fan noise and negative feedback on reddit so far. This board layout looks similar, like the fan is underneath the GPU which is pretty poor design. 

ASUS Prime X570-P
Again, stupid to put the chipset fan and M2 under the GPU! These new 5000 MB NVME drives create LOTs of heat! It does have 8 sata though which I like a lot. No optical out, no usb-c... stupid. 


TLDR: I'm leaning towards the MSI board. The others all seem to be missing critical features or have poor board layouts. 


 

CPU: i5 2500K (4.5ghz) with Coolermaster Hyper 212+
Mobo: ASUS P8P67 Pro B3 - Ram: 2x4gb G.SKILL Ripjaws 1333 - Corsair HX750watt
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 09:16 AM
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You're misled if you buy a X570 Gaming Plus because of the chipset fan. It's been shown to heat up at the power delivery (not chipset) even at stock with R9 3900X , so if you are looking at 12 or 16 cores forget this board and move up the product stack. For 8 cores it's fine, but you really have to reconsider why you are getting it over a ~$130 B450 Pro Carbon which has Intel LAN , WIFI+BT, and ALC1220 audio with TOSLINK.

MSI has a few promotions going on right now that makes their Ace board much more affordable if you want to go with MSI and are buying 12 core. I'd go no lower than the Pro Carbon for 12 core really. If you go with the Pro Carbon & 12 cores I'd make sure to cool it well as MSI R&D decided to cover the power delivery in plastic which largely negates the power delivery improvement from Gaming Plus to ~$250 Pro Carbon.

https://www.msi.com/Promotion/I-Love-You-3000-AMD/

Nobody has shown what Phantom Gaming 4 has under the heatsink. Anandtech lists UP1962S or something from UPI, but that's a driver and not an actual power mosfet. Anyway avoid this like the plague. Asrock's presentations show it as a budget level board. For 8 cores I'd be looking at the $200 Steel Legend and for 12 cores with PBO I'd either make sure to cool the board or to get the Taichi (which in terms of price/performance is a bit lacking this generation unless you plan on 3x M.2).

Gigabyte's Gaming X is pointless if you're futureproofing as it's missing USB 3.1 , uses Realtek LAN, and the audio is substantially worse with ALC887. There's a massive step up from Gaming X to Aorus Elite, which is the cheapest board on Siliconlottery's QVL list currently and upgrades audio + LAN + power delivery as well as the heatsinking. It also puts M.2 above the GPU if you're OCD about that. If you intend to use your board for a long time the premium of $30 is near negligible spread out over 3+ years.

The X570-P is in a odd place as well. For a mere $20 more you can buy the TUF Gaming board which has 4 more powerstages , TOSLink for the audio (same ALC1200 codec), and USB-C at the rear panel for $190 instead of $170. Realtek L8200A LAN may be a dealbreaker for some people as it's proprietary to ASUS which is a pain for any non-Windows OS as well as for longterm driver support. If you want an Intel LAN that will be well supported in the future, then the lowest board in ASUS' stack is the Prime X570 Pro for $250...

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Last edited by AlphaC; 07-12-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 09:49 AM
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570 prices are going to be a bit higher across the board compared to the 370 and 470 boards due to the PCI-E 4.0. It requires more cooling/active cooling but more importantly, it requires additional circuitry for PCI-e 4.0 signal boost and additional trace layers to maintain signal integrity.

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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
You're misled if you buy a X570 Gaming Plus because of the chipset fan. It's been shown to heat up at the power delivery (not chipset) even at stock with R9 3900X , so if you are looking at 12 or 16 cores forget this board and move up the product stack. For 8 cores it's fine, but you really have to reconsider why you are getting it over a ~$130 B450 Pro Carbon which has Intel LAN , WIFI+BT, and ALC1220 audio with TOSLINK.

MSI has a few promotions going on right now that makes their Ace board much more affordable if you want to go with MSI and are buying 12 core. I'd go no lower than the Pro Carbon for 12 core really. If you go with the Pro Carbon & 12 cores I'd make sure to cool it well as MSI R&D decided to cover the power delivery in plastic which largely negates the power delivery improvement from Gaming Plus to ~$250 Pro Carbon.

https://www.msi.com/Promotion/I-Love-You-3000-AMD/

Nobody has shown what Phantom Gaming 4 has under the heatsink. Anandtech lists UP1962S or something from UPI, but that's a driver and not an actual power mosfet. Anyway avoid this like the plague. Asrock's presentations show it as a budget level board. For 8 cores I'd be looking at the $200 Steel Legend and for 12 cores with PBO I'd either make sure to cool the board or to get the Taichi (which in terms of price/performance is a bit lacking this generation unless you plan on 3x M.2).

Gigabyte's Gaming X is pointless if you're futureproofing as it's missing USB 3.1 , uses Realtek LAN, and the audio is substantially worse with ALC887. There's a massive step up from Gaming X to Aorus Elite, which is the cheapest board on Siliconlottery's QVL list currently and upgrades audio + LAN + power delivery as well as the heatsinking. It also puts M.2 above the GPU if you're OCD about that. If you intend to use your board for a long time the premium of $30 is near negligible spread out over 3+ years.

The X570-P is in a odd place as well. For a mere $20 more you can buy the TUF Gaming board which has 4 more powerstages , TOSLink for the audio (same ALC1200 codec), and USB-C at the rear panel for $190 instead of $170. Realtek L8200A LAN may be a dealbreaker for some people as it's proprietary to ASUS which is a pain for any non-Windows OS as well as for longterm driver support. If you want an Intel LAN that will be well supported in the future, then the lowest board in ASUS' stack is the Prime X570 Pro for $250...
Wow Alpha, thanks for the detailed response! I love this forum!

Re: MSI Phantom gaming
I'm just planning on buying a 3700x and leaving it alone for the next 8 years, I truly do not understand why PC gamers upgrade their CPUs so frequently. Any decent resolution (1440P and up) doesn't really benefit from more cores which is great because everyone needs a $600 video card every 24 months! The new game consoles will use a slower version of a 3700x so that seems like a cost effective purchase. If I decide to get a new CPU early it will be a minimum of 5 years, at that point I'll need a new Mobo anyway. The reason I need an X570 is for faster NVME and PCI-E 4.0 because I do as few CPU upgrades for as cheap as possible so I can spend all my money on GPUs. I figure 5 years down the road that GPU upgrade will need a PCI-E 4 slot. I don't care about wifi, intel nic or higher end audio... none of that stuff is relevant but a replaceable chipset fan is extremely important 5+ years down the road.

Great tips on the Phantom Gaming 4 and Gigabyte board, I'll avoid them. Definitely need USB 3.1.

The audio solution doesn't matter at all because I'm bitstreaming all audio to a high quality amp through either HDMI or Toslink.

I haven't had an issue with a NIC since 2005 so I really don't see any cause for concern there. I'm only interested in Windows PC gaming, zero interest in Linux.

You make a compelling case for the Gigabyte Aorus Elite, it's $40 more in Canada than the X570 Gaming plus. I like the NVME location, more ports, better VRM but it still only has 6 sata ports and I can't find a connector for the front USB ports on my case. Is it the ones near the bottom of the motherboard by the power switch connectors?

Why do these new mobos have so few Sata ports?!?! I have over 30tbs of data and over a dozen hard drives between my computers.

CPU: i5 2500K (4.5ghz) with Coolermaster Hyper 212+
Mobo: ASUS P8P67 Pro B3 - Ram: 2x4gb G.SKILL Ripjaws 1333 - Corsair HX750watt
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:06 PM
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From what I've seen the extra SATA ports don't come without cost to the motherboard vendors especially if they are running USB 3.1 gen 2 from the chipset. A SATA controller (ASM1061) is used on MSI X570 Pro Carbon for example and it eats into chipset bandwidth. If you look at the block diagram for X570 Gaming Plus , MSI saves at least $5 on this chip (see page 21): http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7C37v2.0.pdf

Edge block diagram on page 21 (note Intel WIFI 3168 and 2x USB 3.1 gen 2 added) http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7C37v1.0.pdf

Pro Carbon block diagram on page 23 where Intel wifi 6 and USB 3.1 gen 2 ports (two) are sharing chipset: http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7B93v1.0.pdf

With the price of M.2 drives they likely figured that M.2 is the main reason people are buying PCIE 4.0 boards. Currently there is only AMD's RX 5700 XT that uses PCIE 4.0 on the GPU-side and it doesn't saturate PCIE 3.0.

Other vendors don't exactly provide a block diagram but I suspect it is the same situation. The more chips you connect to the chipset the more you need to spend on R & D and troubleshooting proprietary drivers, it's not just the part cost on the BOM (Bill of Materials).

On X570 Aorus Elite there's a USB 3.1 gen 2 type C front panel connector on the right hand side and two USB 3.0 front panel headers on the bottom edge. (see page 5 http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...ite-wifi_e.pdf). On the specsheet it also lists:
1 x USB Type-C port with USB 3.2 Gen 2 support, available through the internal USB header --- USB 3.1 gen 2 (10Gbps)
4 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports available through the internal USB headers -- marketing speak for USB 3.0
4x USB 2.0/1.1 ports (4 ports available through the internal USB header)


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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post
From what I've seen the extra SATA ports don't come without cost to the motherboard vendors especially if they are running USB 3.1 gen 2 from the chipset. A SATA controller (ASM1061) is used on MSI X570 Pro Carbon for example and it eats into chipset bandwidth. If you look at the block diagram for X570 Gaming Plus , MSI saves at least $5 on this chip (see page 21): http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7C37v2.0.pdf

Edge block diagram on page 21 (note Intel WIFI 3168 and 2x USB 3.1 gen 2 added) http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7C37v1.0.pdf

Pro Carbon block diagram on page 23 where Intel wifi 6 and USB 3.1 gen 2 ports (two) are sharing chipset: http://download.msi.com/archive/mnu_.../E7B93v1.0.pdf

With the price of M.2 drives they likely figured that M.2 is the main reason people are buying PCIE 4.0 boards. Currently there is only AMD's RX 5700 XT that uses PCIE 4.0 on the GPU-side and it doesn't saturate PCIE 3.0.

Other vendors don't exactly provide a block diagram but I suspect it is the same situation. The more chips you connect to the chipset the more you need to spend on R & D and troubleshooting proprietary drivers, it's not just the part cost on the BOM (Bill of Materials).

On X570 Aorus Elite there's a USB 3.1 gen 2 type C front panel connector on the right hand side and two USB 3.0 front panel headers on the bottom edge. (see page 5 http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList...ite-wifi_e.pdf). On the specsheet it also lists:
1 x USB Type-C port with USB 3.2 Gen 2 support, available through the internal USB header --- USB 3.1 gen 2 (10Gbps)
4 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 ports available through the internal USB headers -- marketing speak for USB 3.0
4x USB 2.0/1.1 ports (4 ports available through the internal USB header)

Thank you sir. I'm probably going with the Aorus Elite then, waiting to see what happens the fan updates in the BIOS. Last question, any chance the fan in the Aorus Elite is replaceable? I can see the screws under the fan blades in the photo. I'm hoping it's not soldered on there.

CPU: i5 2500K (4.5ghz) with Coolermaster Hyper 212+
Mobo: ASUS P8P67 Pro B3 - Ram: 2x4gb G.SKILL Ripjaws 1333 - Corsair HX750watt
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 02:12 PM
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All the fans on these boards are probably going to be replaceable by their RMA (Aorus has advanced RMA https://service.aorus.com/advanced_repair.php for a minor fee if you're in the USA at least for Intel Z390) and if it isn't a proprietary fan then it will be able to be ordered from places such as Digikey ,Mouser, and Newark ; if it's proprietary somewhere from aliexpress or dhgate if not elsewhere in China. ASUS/MSI/Gigabyte/EVGA all obtain GPU cooler fans from Powerlogic (and Everflow) while I've seen the Asrock X570 Taichi uses Everflow as their OEM (FirstD for their GPUs).



I feel that there is going to be an aftermarket to replace them with a new generation of chipset heatsinks such as the Thermalright HR-05 anyhow. It's a bit early for any announcements but unless all future PCIE 4.0/PCIE 5.0 chipsets somehow lower power use by a large amount it will be inevitable : X570 chipset is already on 14nm and I don't think that it's economically feasible to start make 7nm chipsets in the near future until 7nm EUV is a mainstream matured process.

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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-12-2019, 06:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
570 prices are going to be a bit higher across the board compared to the 370 and 470 boards due to the PCI-E 4.0. It requires more cooling/active cooling but more importantly, it requires additional circuitry for PCI-e 4.0 signal boost and additional trace layers to maintain signal integrity.
I have noticed X470 boards going up in price ASRock X470 Taichi now is $210-$220, Crosshair VII Hero $255 [$275 for the Wi-Fi version], ROG Strix X470-F Gaming $200, MSI X470 GAMING Pro CARBON $180
I think the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS ELITE for $200 is a better alternative than a high end X470 board at this time.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 04:21 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post
I have noticed X470 boards going up in price ASRock X470 Taichi now is $210-$220, Crosshair VII Hero $255 [$275 for the Wi-Fi version], ROG Strix X470-F Gaming $200, MSI X470 GAMING Pro CARBON $180
I think the GIGABYTE X570 AORUS ELITE for $200 is a better alternative than a high end X470 board at this time.
Indeed - they have also become nearly impossible to find. I needed a mid-range board for a 3800X and was not able to find the B450 Tomahawk or B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC at any of the Micro Centers in my state (there are three). I ended up settling on the MSI for $175 but got a $50 bundle discount at Micro Center which made the total (pre-tax) cost for the combo palatable.

One thing I will say about the MSI X570 Gaming Plus is that the BIOS is a steaming pile of hot garbage. There are also some major issues with default voltages and Asus seems to be having issues as well - I've personally seen, and heard other reports of, stock settings putting vCore at 1.475 - 1.50v! I've been primarily an Intel guy but this was a good deal for a second rig to get my fiance more functional for her BA/BI work (Tableau and such) with some gaming power on the side.

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-13-2019, 04:38 PM
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1.475-1.5V is normal if it is lightly loaded. The chip will try to push as much clockspeed as possible. If you have that voltage at 5+ threads then I'd be alarmed.

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