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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by damric View Post
1st round of overclocking. Some mild bumps in voltage and frequency. The Hynix RAM is already impressing me. I will be trying to push things further of course, until I find all of the limits.
Hey bud! Nice to see you back at it. You will find with Ryzen your CPUv will rise drastically when you push faster mem frequency higher than 3200MHz for true stability, so the gains become not worth it at a certain point, especially when running AVX loads. It's too bad you didnt try the DR kits, they have excellent latency up to 3200MHZ or so. Also get the Ryzen timing calcutor- save yourself a bunch of time. Believe it or not your primary timings are mostly irrelevent for the tightest latency...secondaries are where it's at.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
Hey bud! Nice to see you back at it. You will find with Ryzen your CPUv will rise drastically when you push faster mem frequency higher than 3200MHz for true stability, so the gains become not worth it at a certain point, especially when running AVX loads. It's too bad you didnt try the DR kits, they have excellent latency up to 3200MHZ or so. Also get the Ryzen timing calcutor- save yourself a bunch of time. Believe it or not your primary timings are mostly irrelevent for the tightest latency...secondaries are where it's at.
Thank you friend. Long time no see

Yeah I have been referencing the timing calculator by 1usmus. These are some weird Hynix D chips that aren't on the calculator so just making some educated guesswork by examining the X.M.P. data and the other Hynix chip configurations, but mostly trial and error at this point. I can do 3200CL14 very easily, and I haven't decided what is truly optimal yet. I've only stayed in the 1.35-1.38v range so far on the DIMMs but I will see if they scale at all by testing up to 1.5v

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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by damric View Post
snip

Concerns I have:

- How much will I be able to push this hexacore on this 4+3 board? I see that core-disabling is an option if I want to try for a nice HWBOT CPU-Z submission. Cooling shouldn't be a problem for this vapor chamber cooler that I have.
- This RAM. It was too cheap to be Samsung B-die. It could be some rather high bin Hynix or Micron. Luckily I don't mind getting down and dirty with all the timings. While I doubt I'll be able to run it at rated speed on 1st gen Ryzen, I would like to push at least like 2933 MT/s with tight timings. Coming from DDR3-2400CL9 I just know I'll be disappointed, lol.
- BIOS. There must be like 50 BIOS revisions for this board and a new one just came out the other day. It's going to be a pain (or fun) to see which one plays nice with my configuration.
- RGB. This board has it. Not my thing, but I'll try it out.

Once I get it up and running, I'll be posting benches and comparisons against my old Skylake i5-6500T (OC'd to 4.1GHz).


You rang? I can answer these questions and give you some advice, and assistance in tuning your system.

>- How much will I be able to push this hexacore on this 4+3 board? I see that core-disabling is an option if I want to try for a nice HWBOT CPU-Z submission. Cooling shouldn't be a problem for this vapor chamber cooler that I have.

You won't be able to push it much further than you already have. I'd be more concerned about power delivery if you had a cheap PSU, or if you had a Ryzen 3000 series chip, as the stock voltage on most of them is quite high. I get around this using CCX OC (e.g. a manual OC but staggered- most of the time it's 44x/44x/42x/42x 1.35v) which gives drastically better performance with less voltage than Ryzen 3000 stock. So, in the future if you decide to go R5 3600, it may be necessary to upgrade it, but I'd only do that after the fact once you isolate 1) is my chip capable of 4.3GHz+ (r5 3600) and 2) is the voltage I'm pushing a cause for concern, and is power delivery holding me back? In all likelihood, it will be fine, but personally I would like better power delivery myself- my board is 14+2 phase. I think this is overkill tbh, and I believe my chip has a 125w TDP (I think my FX-8350 Vishera pulled more amps, and the Crosshair V Hero was only 8+2 phase). However, there is somewhere I'm going concerning the board that is unrelated to power delivery, I'll get to that later.

Don't bother disabling cores for HWBOT subs on ambient- you are going to be limited to 4GHz more or less and aren't going to be competitive in SuperPi or whatever that's single thread versus those that came before you and used LN2 for all of that stuff. Where you might do better, and what might be worth benching and submitting, is any highly threaded bench, if you can get good memory speed at low timing and possibly work on core OC. Stuff like all the Cinebench benches, GPUPI for CPU, HWBOT PRIME, HWBOT x265, etc. that uses all threads, you may be able to post competitive scores (e.g. earning HW points or possibly globals). Look through the CPU benches and look for checks in the column on multithreaded benches that can give globals as well as HWBoints, and run the ones that are highly parallel. Don't bother with single thread benches.

- This RAM. It was too cheap to be Samsung B-die. It could be some rather high bin Hynix or Micron. Luckily I don't mind getting down and dirty with all the timings. While I doubt I'll be able to run it at rated speed on 1st gen Ryzen, I would like to push at least like 2933 MT/s with tight timings. Coming from DDR3-2400CL9 I just know I'll be disappointed, lol.

If it's stock timing is 16-19-19 @ 3600 then yeah it's not great. However, your bandwidth looks good and your timings are pretty tight and you haven't even overvolted yet.

Try for around 1.45v, 3200 MHz c14-14-14-32-50 (or 14-14-14-28-42 TRFC 288 but thats VERY aggressive for Ryzen 1st gen). If you can't boot at either try 14-15-14-34-52 TRFC 310+.

It would be good to aim for higher frequency at tight timings, something like 3466 MHz 15-16-15-34-52 TRFC 304 will have higher latency than what I just posted for 3200 but more bandwidth and should be faster overall.

https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Flare...2385274&sr=8-1

^ my kit are guaranteed B-Die, stock is 3200MHz c14 but they are 20nm B-Die and actually a better bin than TridentZ Neo 3600 c16 that everyone else is buying because they only make their purchases based on whatever Linus or der8auer are currently selling. I can do 3800MHz 16-16-10-16-28-48 TRFC 288, and I have also run them at 3600MHz c14 and 4066 MHz c16-17-18-17-32-50 or something like that (but this gives less performance and a huge latency penalty for running asynchronous to the Infinity Fabric...3800/1900 fclk is where it's at) I have seen many, many people here fail to run 3800MHz at much higher timing with B-Die TridentZ Neo 3600 c16. And the unlucky ones got Hynix dies on that kit. In comparison, only two other people I've talked to here who just built or upgraded to Ryzen 3000 bought my memory kit, and both have Samsung B-die that do 3800/1900 no problem at low timing as well. Even some guy in the Amazon review said the kit has guaranteed B-Die and posted his timings, and this sold me. I'm very glad I made the choice I did, and of course I did my research and considered other options.

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That's the lowest latency I've achieved, I've actually been doing this for the better part of two months and am still nowhere near done OC'ing my memory.

Anyway if you get B-Dies get my exact kit, you won't be disappointed, and if it's some time in the future, I'd recommend looking into current G.skill Flare X

> - BIOS. There must be like 50 BIOS revisions for this board and a new one just came out the other day. It's going to be a pain (or fun) to see which one plays nice with my configuration.

Look into custom BIOS by The Stilt for your board that he modified to improve memory overclocking and use that. There's a big long list for practically every Ryzen board ever made but I don't have it on hand (I'll look around later.)

> RGB.

Yeah it's extraneous. That said, given that I have an RGB keyboard, mouse, and mousepad, I am also getting a digital RGB strip kit (Phanteks) because my motherboard supports it, has a logo on the I/O casing and southbridge, and AURA which has some neat light patterns it can do, and it will show them on the board before doing the effect across your RGB strips if you set it up properly. If I ever get the help I need and can start working, I pretty much want to build rigs for a living, so I figure I need to have some experience with this.


https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...locking-guide/ Read that, though it's mostly for Ryzen 3000 (which is very different and totally new more or less compared to your chip), one way or another the majority of timings and subtimings he talks about will be present for you. Also, pay particular attention to the motherboard layout section- T-Topology vs Daisy Chain DRAM boards, and figure out which you have (if it's Daisy Chain, then you want both DIMMs in A2 and B2, which is quite odd. This was true for my system.) So, subsequently, this part is what I said I would mention when talking about power delivery- motherboard quality REALLY matters for RAM overclocking, and Daisy Chain setups seem to produce the best results. It just so happens that a board like the ASUS PRIME X570 also has awesome power delivery. Memory overclockability also depends on the quality of the Northbridge on your processor- the SoC. I've seen some people with my processor and board, and a decent kit, be unable to attain 1900MHz fclk (IMC/Northbridge frequency, but also the internal bus between the two chiplets). So I lucked out and got an awesome chip and memory this time. What I'm getting at is that you may consider upgrading to a used x470 or x570 board in 2 years time, if you get a Ryzen R5 3600, for better power delivery and RAM layout (which affects memory OC)- if you can swing it, the little Asus Rog Crosshair VIII Impact overclocks memory on Ryzen 3000 the absolute best because it only has 2 DIMM slots (I saw one guy running DRAM at 4266MHz w/ a R5 3600- his bandwidth was awesome. Same kit did 61ns @ 3800/1900 CAS 12 or something insane like that)

Tweak your subtimings as well, secondary and tertiary timings can have a very large effect on performance. Don't just do primary timings (I'm sure you're not since we have Ryzen DRAM Calc- hopefully you know about exporting from Thaiphoon, setting the profile to manual, etc.)

I'd also suggest looking into what debug voltages (e.g. cLDO_VDDG, cLDO_VDDG, VTT_DDR, VPP_MEM, etc.) apply to your chip and kit, and more important, what additional settings from the Advanced tab (Like Chip Select Interleaving, Memory Interleave Size, OpCache, etc) can be enabled. I found all this for my board in the Advanced - AMD CBS section. See if you can't find BGS_Alt or BankGroupSwap_Alt and enable it (disable BankGroupSwap in the same section if you enable BGS_Alt) as this change alone gives me around 6 GB/sec additional Memory Copy bandwidth.

My only experience with Ryzen is with Ryzen 3000 and it's a wholly new architecture and very different from Ryzen 1st Gen from what I understand, so sorry if a lot of this doesn't make sense or apply.

Hope this helps buddy.

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Last edited by neurotix; 10-30-2019 at 11:20 AM.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by neurotix View Post
You rang? I can answer these questions and give you some advice, and assistance in tuning your system.

> RGB.

Yeah it's extraneous. That said, given that I have an RGB keyboard, mouse, and mousepad, I am also getting a digital RGB strip kit (Phanteks) because my motherboard supports it, has a logo on the I/O casing and southbridge, and AURA which has some neat light patterns it can do, and it will show them on the board before doing the effect across your RGB strips if you set it up properly. If I ever get the help I need and can start working, I pretty much want to build rigs for a living, so I figure I need to have some experience with this.
The beauty of RGB, IMO is not the unicorn vomit all the lights on use case. It's that manufacturers can now just make nice looking hardware in neutral colors and allow users to customize it to their liking. And as a user you don't have to commit to a particular color, you can mix it up as time passes. Motherboards, RAM, everything really has gotten nicer design wise since RGB kicked in. No more bright orange "gaming" motherboards haha.

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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We must think alike and read the same stuff. I actually already have that memory guide bookmarked.

So mostly I've been stress testing, using linpacks for quick tests, and AIDA64 for longer tests. Linpack seems to eat my CPU and VRM, and quickly shows if my CPU clock is unstable. AIDA64 seems to be a better indicator of if my memory is unstable. Right now I seem rock solid and good temperatures with just 3825MHz CPU and 3200CL14 RAM. I'm still testing though. I might be able to get a little bit more at the costs of a lot of volts and heat.

What's cool is the way I have my fans on my tower heat sink oriented. I had extra room enough that I was able to push them way down hanging off the bottom of the cooler so that they nearly sit flush on my motherboard. This way the Push fan also pulls air over the RAM, and the Pull fan pushes air directly onto the VRM.

This motherboard has extensive sensors to monitor, and lets me assign fan speed curves to the various temperatures, so I have my Pull fan and my rear exhaust ramp up according to the VRM, and I set all the others according to CPU. Very quiet if I'm not benching or stressing. These are some 2500RPM PWM fans I bought for the CPU cooler a few months ago with supposedly over 4mmH2O of static pressure. I also have a 1200RPM Cougar for the rear exhaust, and 2 Cooler Master Air Flow 140mm PWM fans in the front intake.
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 12:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by damric View Post
@neurotix

We must think alike and read the same stuff. I actually already have that memory guide bookmarked.

So mostly I've been stress testing, using linpacks for quick tests, and AIDA64 for longer tests. Linpack seems to eat my CPU and VRM, and quickly shows if my CPU clock is unstable. AIDA64 seems to be a better indicator of if my memory is unstable. Right now I seem rock solid and good temperatures with just 3825MHz CPU and 3200CL14 RAM. I'm still testing though. I might be able to get a little bit more at the costs of a lot of volts and heat.

What's cool is the way I have my fans on my tower heat sink oriented. I had extra room enough that I was able to push them way down hanging off the bottom of the cooler so that they nearly sit flush on my motherboard. This way the Push fan also pulls air over the RAM, and the Pull fan pushes air directly onto the VRM.

This motherboard has extensive sensors to monitor, and lets me assign fan speed curves to the various temperatures, so I have my Pull fan and my rear exhaust ramp up according to the VRM, and I set all the others according to CPU. Very quiet if I'm not benching or stressing. These are some 2500RPM PWM fans I bought for the CPU cooler a few months ago with supposedly over 4mmH2O of static pressure. I also have a 1200RPM Cougar for the rear exhaust, and 2 Cooler Master Air Flow 140mm PWM fans in the front intake.

Holy cow man, dust that HD 7850! Forreals though wipe that case down and that fan filter next to your drive cage behind the shroud... will probably help temps... pull it out and wash it in the sink and let it dry overnight by a box fan or something if you don't have alcohol/electronics wipes/canned air. If you have a Shop Vac that you can set to blow air those work well too.

I see what you mean about the fans on your cooler being offset to be flush with the board. Yes, this would help cool the memory. Have you ever tried orienting the sink the other way (facing up/down)? This is generally doable with most tower coolers today. The idea is, you orient it with the heatsink fans aligned up/down, then put your fans push/pull, as they are now, with the bottom fan pulling and the top pushing, and the air moving up through the sink and out the top of the case. Since heat rises. Since you have an NVMe drive, if it is directly above the GPU, this will cool the NVMe drive as well as the GPU since heat naturally rises anyway. The only problem is that your CPU may run a few C hotter since now, heat from your graphics card will be passing through the sink too. But overall you may not see much difference other than your NVMe and GPU will run cooler, since having the sink the way you have it now with the fans moving air front to back causes a dead zone of hot air from the GPU (when gaming or doing 3d benches) directly below the heatsink, right over where most boards have NVMe drives now (and a lot of them can silently corrupt if they run above 70C or so, which is their TJmax- my 970 Evos is, anyway). Also, the hot air from your GPU not only will hang around the board socket/NVMe/right above the card but also heat the heatsink directly, on the metal on the bottom of it currently, since there are no fins or fans on the bottom blowing up.

So, how the whole thing would work would be you have your heatsink oriented top to bottom, bottom fan on the heatsink blowing up, and top fan pulling hot air up. This will cool the GPU and NVMe better. You keep the fan on the back of the case the same, and it will exhaust heat from the VRMs and socket air through the back of the case via pulling it. Then, to cool the memory and socket area, as well as your NVMe drive further, you can use one of the G.skill memory coolers if you have one, blowing on the DRAM next to the tower. Or stick a spare 120mm fan over the memory if you have a way to power it, and use some zipties or something to rig it, so it is blowing down onto the memory and board to the right of the heatsink.

I haven't used a tower cooler for a very long time and use 240mm AIOs but have similar issues, especially since moving to the R9 3900x, with stagnant heat around the socket and above my GPUs- remember, OC'ed they can pull close to 750w a piece- even when they are sitting idle, they use 100w+ and are constantly exhausting heat up. So, I put a spare G.skill memory cooler blowing down on my memory, and a spare 140mm fan behind the socket, ziptied around some cords, blowing on it directly from behind. This reduced load temps on the CPU by roughly 10-15C depending on load, and caused my NVMe to idle around 35c instead of 50c (and under a full bench load with my system pulling 850-900w at the wall I'm sure my Ti's were heating that thing enough to the danger zone of 70c+ easily, but I never checked)

Anyway, some other people really swear by this cooler orientation method, though again it can make the CPU run hotter but the GPU and NVMe run cooler.. I wouldn't change it though unless you have that spare fan and some way to have it blowing down onto your memory, which will also cool the socket, VRMs, NVMe etc and I would also do thorough before/after tests on all components but especially the CPU and GPU, while controlling for ambient temps if possible (set your heater to the same setting and use an indoor thermometer or any thermometer if you have one- since it's getting cold now you can open a window to cool the room down if needed, I've seen my ambient go from 67f all the way up to 77f in an hour or two of running Fire Strike Ultra, so I open a window to cool the room down if I am running a controlled test). Again, I would expect to see a decrease in GPU and NVMe temps, a possible decrease in DRAM temps if you have a fan blowing on it directly, but a possible small increase in CPU temperature due to more hot air from another high-watt component (the GPU) exhausting its hot air up through the sink after the change.

Imo, Linpack is pretty dang overkill for testing a consumer CPU, as the only loads that will ever even come close to generating that kind of demand or heat would be video encoding, folding on CPU or mining on CPU. No game and few CPU-only benchmarks will ever run that hot. If it's working for you, good, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to blow your setup up. Linpack is like the Furmark Fuzzy Donut of CPU benchmarks and really pretty unneeded. We aren't testing performance of supercomputers here, like top500. I'd also avoid Prime95 in this day and age, given that it uses AVX by default. It's known for making Ryzen 3000 run so hot it will overheat/crash at anything more than 4.2GHz or so. Ironically, I found out SiliconLottery is using AVX Prime to test and bin Ryzen 3000 series chips, and they previously used ROG Realbench for 1hr to bin chips (the paper that came with my binned 4790k says as much). Anyway, this means they don't bin or sell any R9 3900x that run faster than 4.2GHz, but even the worst R9 3900x can easily do at least 4500/4450/4300/4250 1.425v manual CCX OC on the boards that have the option to. (Manual OCs top out at 43x all cores- CCX or Core Complex OC sets the ratio per 3 cores/6 threads across 4 Core Complexes, with 2 per chiplet. So, in that example I gave, the first 6 threads would run at 4500 (for gaming), second 6 at 4450, third 6 threads on the first CCX of the lower binned chiplet at 4300, and fourth 6 threads at 4250MHz. Since the 3900x runs very hot, and automatically assigns gaming loads that only use ~6-8 threads tops to the first CCX on chiplet 1, this method allows faster speeds for games while still enforcing Turbo clocks for 24-thread loads that won't cause thermal shutoff and will give increased performance compared to auto OC.)

Anyway, I don't use Prime95 or Linpack to test my rig. I'd recommend Realbench, HWBOT x265 looped or any high thread count x264 bench looped (these will crash pretty quickly if unstable, but generate far less heat), or something like that. Personally, I've never liked AIDA's stability test very much and don't use it myself but some people like it.

What I've been using is pretty simple- Cinebench R20 set to "realtime" process priority, run over and over. Yeah. If I'm unstable it basically crashes after 3 seconds or so and my rig resets (in the case of unstable DRAM) and if I am clocking too aggressively I'll trigger TJmax and overheat on the socket (surpass 95C) which will cause the machine to reboot and the bios to whine to me. If I'm stable on both memory OC and and not overheating, I can run it 5-10 times back to back totally fine, though my cooling has difficulty keeping up, even with the addition of the fans I mentioned. But this seems to work really well and if I can run R20 5 times without crashing back to back, the system never crashes under either Win10 or Linux, period. It also only takes me maybe 10 minutes of sitting down to check. Since my board/chip is essentially bleeding edge and has bugs/kinks in the BIOS to iron out over the next year, and I will definitely be updating my BIOS often to fix bugs/stability/memory OC issues/CPU overclocking being less than advertised, and we've gone through like 10 AGESA revisions already, I don't see much point in doing thorough overnight stability testing with Realbench, HWBOT x265, etc. yet because it will just have to be retested. Cinebench R20 in the manner I stated seems to verify my core and memory OC stability for gaming and general use well enough that I don't crash, so that's fine for now, and once we don't have any planned BIOS releases for a long time I will do more thorough testing...

For checking memory errors I use the built in test in Ryzen DRAM Calculator

Click image for larger version

Name:	Capture.PNG
Views:	6
Size:	2.51 MB
ID:	303424


Set like that. If I set it to use all free RAM, it complains and won't run (I use a ramcache program for my SSD, and a page file), so I tell it to run 9000MB to 3200% and this will make it run to around 105% on all threads. Since your chip is 12-thread you should be able to set it to 1600% or so and end up similarly. However, I'll warn that this program does not find all memory errors in all loads- I've seen someone complaining recently that they passed this to 32000% (or something, equating to over 1000% each thread, the percentage just seems to be amount of time to run), yet when rebooting would get random F9 memory error codes (= loading recovery module/setting bios to defaults, meaning they were NOT stable). Something like ROG Realbench for 1h which simulates heavy real-world use (and runs 3d apps, video encoding, web browsing etc. all at the same time) would probably work better.


Anyway, that's it/my suggestions or thoughts for now, hope you find it useful and it gives you some ideas to play with/consider.

CPU
Ryzen 9 3900X @ 4.5GHz CCD0 1.375v VID OC, 4.2GHz CCD1- 1900Mhz fclk/uclk
Motherboard
ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero BIOS 1201
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW3 2025/5940MHz
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW3 2025/5940MHz
GPU
EVGA RGB SLI HB Bridge
RAM
G.SKILL Flare X B-Die 3200 C14 @ 3800MHz C14-16-15-15-30-48 1T 1.475v GDM off
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 500GB m.2 2280 PCI-E NVMe SSD
Hard Drive
WD Black 2TB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 4TB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 6TB
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Samsung 840 Evo SATA 256GB
Power Supply
COOLERMASTER V1000 (Seasonic 1000w 80+ Gold)
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Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 38mm 360mm AIO
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Prolimatech PK-3 Nano 30g tube
Case
Anidées AI CRYSTAL AR3 RGB Midtower
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Win10 X64 Pro 1903 (gaming only), stripped down, updates blocked, Firewalled.
Monitor
LG 34WN80C 34" 3440x1440 21:9 IPS, 300 nit, HDR
Keyboard
GMMK v2 104 key | Kailh Box Jades | HyperX PBT pudding (for now)
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OCN Ducky DK1008 MX Blues
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Rosewill K85 RGB Kailh/Kaihua Blue switches
Keyboard
Ducky One 2 RGB fullsize
Mouse
Redragon Chroma M710 RGB (Omron Switches)
Mousepad
Corsair Polaris RGB
Audio
Logitech G230 red
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Logitech Z2300 2.1 120w 8" sub, w/ 40w satellites
Other
Phanteks RGB 5050/Digital RGB strips
Other
Respawn Black/Gray Racing Chair
CPU
Raspberry Pi 3B
Optical Drive
DENON DCD-560 CD Player, dual integrated 20bit Burr Brown PCM61P DAC's
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Kodi 17.2
Monitor
ASUS V238H 23" 1080p 60 Hz
Audio
Pioneer SX-255R Receiver, 4x 100w
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TECHNICS SB-A32 Floor Standers, 4x8" polyurethane woofers, 100w/cabinet, 1" His and 3" Midrange
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Polk Audio PSW-505 300w subwoofer, replaced woofer with CT SOUNDS TROPO 12" 4Ω DVC car sub wired in series, 8Ω, 300w
Audio
Kenwood GE-4030 Stereo Graphic Equalizer
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TECHNICS RS-T18 dual tape deck
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Motorola 68000 @ 7.8MHz
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Macintosh SE logic board
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Macintosh SE analog board (provides voltage + timing to CRT)
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None. Graphics generated by ROM, OS and 68k (sans fpu)
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Hard Drive
FloppyEmu Ver C in clear case, front-mounted, 500MB HFS .dsk file
Optical Drive
Sony 800KB Double-Sided floppy disk drive. Cleaned and relubricated
Power Supply
stock, 75W
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Single fan. Very small. (25mm?)
Cooling
Cage in the case itself provides convection cooling.
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System Software 6.0.8 w/ Multifinder
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Mouse
Apple Desktop Bus Mouse 1 (cleaned)
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Last edited by neurotix; 10-30-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by neurotix View Post
Holy cow man, dust that HD 7850! Forreals though wipe that case down and that fan filter next to your drive cage behind the shroud... will probably help temps... pull it out and wash it in the sink and let it dry overnight by a box fan or something if you don't have alcohol/electronics wipes/canned air. If you have a Shop Vac that you can set to blow air those work well too.

I see what you mean about the fans on your cooler being offset to be flush with the board. Yes, this would help cool the memory. Have you ever tried orienting the sink the other way (facing up/down)? This is generally doable with most tower coolers today. The idea is, you orient it with the heatsink fans aligned up/down, then put your fans push/pull, as they are now, with the bottom fan pulling and the top pushing, and the air moving up through the sink and out the top of the case. Since heat rises. Since you have an NVMe drive, if it is directly above the GPU, this will cool the NVMe drive as well as the GPU since heat naturally rises anyway. The only problem is that your CPU may run a few C hotter since now, heat from your graphics card will be passing through the sink too. But overall you may not see much difference other than your NVMe and GPU will run cooler, since having the sink the way you have it now with the fans moving air front to back causes a dead zone of hot air from the GPU (when gaming or doing 3d benches) directly below the heatsink, right over where most boards have NVMe drives now (and a lot of them can silently corrupt if they run above 70C or so, which is their TJmax- my 970 Evos is, anyway). Also, the hot air from your GPU not only will hang around the board socket/NVMe/right above the card but also heat the heatsink directly, on the metal on the bottom of it currently, since there are no fins or fans on the bottom blowing up.

So, how the whole thing would work would be you have your heatsink oriented top to bottom, bottom fan on the heatsink blowing up, and top fan pulling hot air up. This will cool the GPU and NVMe better. You keep the fan on the back of the case the same, and it will exhaust heat from the VRMs and socket air through the back of the case via pulling it. Then, to cool the memory and socket area, as well as your NVMe drive further, you can use one of the G.skill memory coolers if you have one, blowing on the DRAM next to the tower. Or stick a spare 120mm fan over the memory if you have a way to power it, and use some zipties or something to rig it, so it is blowing down onto the memory and board to the right of the heatsink.

I haven't used a tower cooler for a very long time and use 240mm AIOs but have similar issues, especially since moving to the R9 3900x, with stagnant heat around the socket and above my GPUs- remember, OC'ed they can pull close to 750w a piece- even when they are sitting idle, they use 100w+ and are constantly exhausting heat up. So, I put a spare G.skill memory cooler blowing down on my memory, and a spare 140mm fan behind the socket, ziptied around some cords, blowing on it directly from behind. This reduced load temps on the CPU by roughly 10-15C depending on load, and caused my NVMe to idle around 35c instead of 50c (and under a full bench load with my system pulling 850-900w at the wall I'm sure my Ti's were heating that thing enough to the danger zone of 70c+ easily, but I never checked)

Anyway, some other people really swear by this cooler orientation method, though again it can make the CPU run hotter but the GPU and NVMe run cooler.. I wouldn't change it though unless you have that spare fan and some way to have it blowing down onto your memory, which will also cool the socket, VRMs, NVMe etc and I would also do thorough before/after tests on all components but especially the CPU and GPU, while controlling for ambient temps if possible (set your heater to the same setting and use an indoor thermometer or any thermometer if you have one- since it's getting cold now you can open a window to cool the room down if needed, I've seen my ambient go from 67f all the way up to 77f in an hour or two of running Fire Strike Ultra, so I open a window to cool the room down if I am running a controlled test). Again, I would expect to see a decrease in GPU and NVMe temps, a possible decrease in DRAM temps if you have a fan blowing on it directly, but a possible small increase in CPU temperature due to more hot air from another high-watt component (the GPU) exhausting its hot air up through the sink after the change.

Imo, Linpack is pretty dang overkill for testing a consumer CPU, as the only loads that will ever even come close to generating that kind of demand or heat would be video encoding, folding on CPU or mining on CPU. No game and few CPU-only benchmarks will ever run that hot. If it's working for you, good, but I'm sure you wouldn't want to blow your setup up. Linpack is like the Furmark Fuzzy Donut of CPU benchmarks and really pretty unneeded. We aren't testing performance of supercomputers here, like top500. I'd also avoid Prime95 in this day and age, given that it uses AVX by default. It's known for making Ryzen 3000 run so hot it will overheat/crash at anything more than 4.2GHz or so. Ironically, I found out SiliconLottery is using AVX Prime to test and bin Ryzen 3000 series chips, and they previously used ROG Realbench for 1hr to bin chips (the paper that came with my binned 4790k says as much). Anyway, this means they don't bin or sell any R9 3900x that run faster than 4.2GHz, but even the worst R9 3900x can easily do at least 4500/4450/4300/4250 1.425v manual CCX OC on the boards that have the option to. (Manual OCs top out at 43x all cores- CCX or Core Complex OC sets the ratio per 3 cores/6 threads across 4 Core Complexes, with 2 per chiplet. So, in that example I gave, the first 6 threads would run at 4500 (for gaming), second 6 at 4450, third 6 threads on the first CCX of the lower binned chiplet at 4300, and fourth 6 threads at 4250MHz. Since the 3900x runs very hot, and automatically assigns gaming loads that only use ~6-8 threads tops to the first CCX on chiplet 1, this method allows faster speeds for games while still enforcing Turbo clocks for 24-thread loads that won't cause thermal shutoff and will give increased performance compared to auto OC.)

Anyway, I don't use Prime95 or Linpack to test my rig. I'd recommend Realbench, HWBOT x265 looped or any high thread count x264 bench looped (these will crash pretty quickly if unstable, but generate far less heat), or something like that. Personally, I've never liked AIDA's stability test very much and don't use it myself but some people like it.

What I've been using is pretty simple- Cinebench R20 set to "realtime" process priority, run over and over. Yeah. If I'm unstable it basically crashes after 3 seconds or so and my rig resets (in the case of unstable DRAM) and if I am clocking too aggressively I'll trigger TJmax and overheat on the socket (surpass 95C) which will cause the machine to reboot and the bios to whine to me. If I'm stable on both memory OC and and not overheating, I can run it 5-10 times back to back totally fine, though my cooling has difficulty keeping up, even with the addition of the fans I mentioned. But this seems to work really well and if I can run R20 5 times without crashing back to back, the system never crashes under either Win10 or Linux, period. It also only takes me maybe 10 minutes of sitting down to check. Since my board/chip is essentially bleeding edge and has bugs/kinks in the BIOS to iron out over the next year, and I will definitely be updating my BIOS often to fix bugs/stability/memory OC issues/CPU overclocking being less than advertised, and we've gone through like 10 AGESA revisions already, I don't see much point in doing thorough overnight stability testing with Realbench, HWBOT x265, etc. yet because it will just have to be retested. Cinebench R20 in the manner I stated seems to verify my core and memory OC stability for gaming and general use well enough that I don't crash, so that's fine for now, and once we don't have any planned BIOS releases for a long time I will do more thorough testing...

For checking memory errors I use the built in test in Ryzen DRAM Calculator

Attachment 303424


Set like that. If I set it to use all free RAM, it complains and won't run (I use a ramcache program for my SSD, and a page file), so I tell it to run 9000MB to 3200% and this will make it run to around 105% on all threads. Since your chip is 12-thread you should be able to set it to 1600% or so and end up similarly. However, I'll warn that this program does not find all memory errors in all loads- I've seen someone complaining recently that they passed this to 32000% (or something, equating to over 1000% each thread, the percentage just seems to be amount of time to run), yet when rebooting would get random F9 memory error codes (= loading recovery module/setting bios to defaults, meaning they were NOT stable). Something like ROG Realbench for 1h which simulates heavy real-world use (and runs 3d apps, video encoding, web browsing etc. all at the same time) would probably work better.


Anyway, that's it/my suggestions or thoughts for now, hope you find it useful and it gives you some ideas to play with/consider.
For the fan HSF, yes I agree. Except that my motherboard is mounted horizontally because this is a HAF XB, basically an open air test bench

Because it's so open, everything just EATS DUST. It's amazing really that just last month I pulled that graphics card and disassembled it and ran the heat sink through the dishwasher and thoroughly scrubbed my case and fans, lol. I just washed my CPU cooler on Sunday and it's already got a coat of dust. It's just a constant battle, but being open I get awesome temps. SSD never goes over 45C. Graphics card 50C during Firestrike. CPU and VRM are low 60s during linpacks, so I can't complain.

Been a while since I used Realbench. I'll check it out. I haven't had a chance to play around with all of the extra testing tools on 1USMUS' RAM tweaker.

I ran some max overclock benches today and submitted them to HWBOT. I'll post some screenies here soon.

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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 02:31 PM
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I've been using good old fashioned Prime 95 to test stability. I tried a whole bunch of stuff and it seemed stable, then my rig crashed on literally my first game of PUBG.... sooo yeah I like to go a little overboard

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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-30-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by damric View Post
For the fan HSF, yes I agree. Except that my motherboard is mounted horizontally because this is a HAF XB, basically an open air test bench

Because it's so open, everything just EATS DUST. It's amazing really that just last month I pulled that graphics card and disassembled it and ran the heat sink through the dishwasher and thoroughly scrubbed my case and fans, lol. I just washed my CPU cooler on Sunday and it's already got a coat of dust. It's just a constant battle, but being open I get awesome temps. SSD never goes over 45C. Graphics card 50C during Firestrike. CPU and VRM are low 60s during linpacks, so I can't complain.

Been a while since I used Realbench. I'll check it out. I haven't had a chance to play around with all of the extra testing tools on 1USMUS' RAM tweaker.

I ran some max overclock benches today and submitted them to HWBOT. I'll post some screenies here soon.

Ah, temps are not a concern then. And dust is a losing battle.

When I bench I do something similar-


Click image for larger version

Name:	20191010_165555.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	3.45 MB
ID:	303514


My 780T has a wireless, toolless side panel you can remove by just pulling a latch, as well as a top ~400mm (roughly) removable fan filter with stamped aluminum on it, and a ~240mm fan filter in the front. Both of these just click into place on two corners.

So other than the fact I keep my case standing up vs on its side, its more or less the same idea, and definitely helps keep my 1080tis from throttling/running cooler and keeps my CPU running cooler too. I only take the panels and filters off when benching though, gaming or other tasks like ocn, browsing etc I leave them on to keep dust out.

Especially given that your case is on its side, *I would really suggest adding a spare fan*, if you have one and a free fan header, directly over your DRAM blowing down onto it. This will not only cool the memory, but the nvme and especially the socket, MOSFETs and power delivery stuff.

A few people in my motherboards owners club, linked in my signature, have reported instability/crashes related to the memory running above 50c, that went away once they added a ram cooler or spare fan blowing down onto it. I even questioned this myself, as memory overheating is generally not a thing, but saw enough before/after evidence that I had to admit it worked. I didn't have any problems overclocking my ram, and it was running over 50c with the system on, but benefited with lower socket, nvme, vrm and core temps from doing this.

Basically if you can rig a fan or even just set it on top of your memory blowing on to it, you may be able to get higher ram oc at lower latency that wouldnt be doable otherwise, and possibly higher cpu clocks at lower temps too.

It may also be worth your time to check out my mobo owners thread (link in sig) as you will probably learn a lot even without Ryzen 3000 or an Asus board. You can try the current Gigabyte X570 Aorus owners threads too. People talk about a lot more than the boards, theres heavy discussion of memory OC, Zen 1 ocing, etc At the very least, the original post also has some very good links in it that you may find useful or interesting, as well as links to software thats hard to find now (like Asus Rog MemTweakIt that shows pretty much all timings on Ryzen systems, including hidden ones not in my bios, that might work on non-Asus boards too. Obviously I cant test)

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14873...uency-metrics-

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14525...-and-epyc-rome

^ great in depth reading about Ryzen 3000, memory, architecture, etc. Useful to study if you plan on an eventual R5 3600 but might apply to your current setup to a degree

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTes...0OC%20Guide.md

^ applies to all Zen chips, useful memory oc tool, good advice and reading

Hope this helps

CPU
Ryzen 9 3900X @ 4.5GHz CCD0 1.375v VID OC, 4.2GHz CCD1- 1900Mhz fclk/uclk
Motherboard
ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero BIOS 1201
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW3 2025/5940MHz
GPU
EVGA GTX 1080ti FTW3 2025/5940MHz
GPU
EVGA RGB SLI HB Bridge
RAM
G.SKILL Flare X B-Die 3200 C14 @ 3800MHz C14-16-15-15-30-48 1T 1.475v GDM off
Hard Drive
Samsung 970 Evo 500GB m.2 2280 PCI-E NVMe SSD
Hard Drive
WD Black 2TB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 4TB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 6TB
Hard Drive
Samsung 840 Evo SATA 256GB
Power Supply
COOLERMASTER V1000 (Seasonic 1000w 80+ Gold)
Cooling
Arctic Cooling Liquid Freezer II 38mm 360mm AIO
Cooling
Anidées AI-AUREOLA RGB fans x7
Cooling
Prolimatech PK-3 Nano 30g tube
Case
Anidées AI CRYSTAL AR3 RGB Midtower
Operating System
Debian Linux 10
Operating System
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Monitor
LG 34WN80C 34" 3440x1440 21:9 IPS, 300 nit, HDR
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OCN Ducky DK1008 MX Blues
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Rosewill K85 RGB Kailh/Kaihua Blue switches
Keyboard
Ducky One 2 RGB fullsize
Mouse
Redragon Chroma M710 RGB (Omron Switches)
Mousepad
Corsair Polaris RGB
Audio
Logitech G230 red
Audio
Logitech Z2300 2.1 120w 8" sub, w/ 40w satellites
Other
Phanteks RGB 5050/Digital RGB strips
Other
Respawn Black/Gray Racing Chair
CPU
Raspberry Pi 3B
Optical Drive
DENON DCD-560 CD Player, dual integrated 20bit Burr Brown PCM61P DAC's
Operating System
Kodi 17.2
Monitor
ASUS V238H 23" 1080p 60 Hz
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Pioneer SX-255R Receiver, 4x 100w
Audio
TECHNICS SB-A32 Floor Standers, 4x8" polyurethane woofers, 100w/cabinet, 1" His and 3" Midrange
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Polk Audio PSW-505 300w subwoofer, replaced woofer with CT SOUNDS TROPO 12" 4Ω DVC car sub wired in series, 8Ω, 300w
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Kenwood GE-4030 Stereo Graphic Equalizer
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TECHNICS RS-T18 dual tape deck
CPU
Motorola 68000 @ 7.8MHz
Motherboard
Macintosh SE logic board
Motherboard
Macintosh SE analog board (provides voltage + timing to CRT)
GPU
None. Graphics generated by ROM, OS and 68k (sans fpu)
RAM
NEC Electronics 80ns 9-chip 1MB SIMMs (four, 4MB total RAM)
Hard Drive
FloppyEmu Ver C in clear case, front-mounted, 500MB HFS .dsk file
Optical Drive
Sony 800KB Double-Sided floppy disk drive. Cleaned and relubricated
Power Supply
stock, 75W
Cooling
Single fan. Very small. (25mm?)
Cooling
Cage in the case itself provides convection cooling.
Case
Macintosh SE, platinum color, Snow White design language
Operating System
System Software 6.0.8 w/ Multifinder
Operating System
System Software 7.1 (rarely used; needed for Macintalk 2 speech synthesis)
Monitor
9" 1-bit (black and white) CRT, 512x342, 58Hz
Keyboard
Apple Desktop Bus Keyboard 1 (cleaned and restored.)
Mouse
Apple Desktop Bus Mouse 1 (cleaned)
Audio
Mono Speaker
Other
"Macintosh Toolbox" 128Kb ROM chip- accelerates OS/System calls
Other
Replaced soldered 3.6V PRAM battery liable to explode/leak w/ 3V lithium coin cell meant for Gameboy games.
▲ hide details ▲



Last edited by neurotix; 10-30-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
Turtle Lives Matter
 
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Azalea City
Posts: 4,729
Rep: 431 (Unique: 332)
BENCHES

Alright, so here's my best benches for my Ryzen 1600 and my good old HD 7850.
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Borg Cube
(16 items)
Sky OC
(10 items)
CPU
R5 1600(14nm) @4100MHz
Motherboard
GA-AX370-Gaming K5
GPU
XFX RX 570 4GB
RAM
Ripjaws V @3466CL16
Hard Drive
VPN-100 NVMe
Power Supply
Rosewill CAPSTONE (SF GG)
Cooling
TCP-612
Cooling
2x EVGA FX 120mm Fan
Cooling
2x Cooler Master MasterFan Pro 140 Air Flow
Case
HAF XB
Operating System
10-64 PRO
Monitor
Samsung 4K 60Hz
Keyboard
Logitech G105
Mouse
Devastator II
Audio
Xonar SE
Audio
Logitech Z623
Motherboard
Z170 K4/D3
GPU
Vega 64
RAM
2x8GB RipjawsX
Hard Drive
Silicon Power A80
Power Supply
Supernova G3
Cooling
i7 Stock Cooler
Case
Aerocool Bolt
Operating System
10 Pro
Monitor
Samsung 58" 4K
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