Over 40 hours of messing with the DRAM Calculator & watching "Buildzoid" videos, buying new stuff he recommended and I have had NO PROGRESS -- PLZHELP!! Ryzen 3950x RAM - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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Over 40 hours of messing with the DRAM Calculator & watching "Buildzoid" videos, buying new stuff he recommended and I have had NO PROGRESS -- PLZHELP!! Ryzen 3950x RAM

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post #21 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
This thread
@negativefusion i'll try to walk you through a bit later in the day
Let's see when we both are activate

You have to keep in mind, manual import mode reported awkward results couple of times already, while R-XMP provides done presets
These have to work unless something else is critically wrong on your side
Thanks for your help/offer, let me know what you are available later today (what timezone etc) -

Regarding timings: that was my understanding "they have to work" -- but they don't, and thats why I made the post 12 days ago to get help with my 3000mhz kit, got no help, so bought this 3600mhz kit, and have the same type of issues (some "safe" settings, simply just not working... it may be 100% on my side, I just need help figuring out what it is, and where it is.


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

Buildzoids recommendations are recommendations for enthusiasts
He will recommend best bang for buck, but not easy to manage to get to work kits
The kit I actually bought was where he said its really easy to work with... a bunch of people had referred me to his "advice" and so far its been a collosal waste of time and not nearly as "easy" as he made it seem...


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

If timings mismatch, you should get post issues or instant bluescreens
Yep, I do get that, most of the timings/settings I try, don't even post and I have to manually do a clear CMOS. Some fail memtests in under 5 seconds, some under 5 minutes...

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
To what I can read its more setup related and a bit user related
It may very well be 99.9% my fault, that's why I am asking for help. I'm new to this . I acknowledge that, I am not saying I know everything (not even close), look at the conversation above this quote related to the FIRST STEP "vsoc" -- guy posted a picture of a asus mobo with that, mine doesn't say that, he says to not touch that, but that's literally the only option... compounded by the fact that it matches the guide, leads me to believe I am missing something obvious here.

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

The dimms should be fine, difference is ~ Intel timing names have a bit of a different naming scheme than on amd
And on Intel you relay the memory controller to perfectly predict everything and just fix RTLs
Tested dimms on stock XMP 3600c16-18-18 - they are fine


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
On amd you have to do all the work by yourself as everything is unlocked
But prediction is still a bit immature
After all Intel's 14nm memory controller had 5-6 years to improve
AMD is only a subtle bit to blame because of funny bios bugs, but not much more
They are twice as fast on development
Nor is DRAM Calculator to blame, well also only a tiny tiny bit
I am not blaming anything, I am just saying despite doing my best for over 40 hours and watching 12+ hours of this supposed "legend" buildzoid videos and reading numerous guides -- I have gotten literally nowhere except wasting more cash... and that's why I am asking for help

Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
ProcODT has to stay low, dual rank kits are a bit taxing but not to the memory controller
It still remains best practice to use the spilled out RTT & ProcODT values of the calculator and get an R-XMP Safe profile to run under 3600MT/s
I have no idea what MT/S speeds I am running at, I know my ram is rated at 3600MHZc16-18-18, and that is stable... but don't know where to check for MT/s ??



Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
At the same time lower every voltage and impedance you can, except RTT values
This doesn't help me at all, there are literally over 3 dozen voltage settings I can mess with, telling me to "lower them all at the same time" doesn't tell me which ones, or by how much... For example do i just lower DDR voltage from 1.35 to..... 1.34? 1.33? 1.32? 1.2? 1.1? 0.9??


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post
Cad_bus depends on your current running bios, soo start with 30-20-24-24 on agesa 1004BB
ok... what mhz timings?? what speed? what fclk? I need help with the rest of it, or I am just entering random numbers into random frequencies...


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

Enable UncoreOC mode inside the AMD Overclocking tab to allow you custom voltages without CPU autocorrection
Inside the main OC menu fix
cLDO_VDDP to 900mV
cLDO_VDDG IOD 975
cLDO_VDDG CCD 1050
VSOC 1125 with a strong loadline drop, level 4 if 1 is flat, or level 3 if 8 is flat
~ you'll notice it, its different up to bios
Keep CPU loadline on auto only VRM switching current to phase response mode
These are very high settings but you want it done fast right ?
No, I don't want it "done fast", and nor am I shooting for a world record here... I don't want some extreme overclocking profile... I just want to either stabalize my 1900fclk/3800 @ c16 or if that's too hard/not an option, I know I can boot and post at 3600c14 (see CPU-Z picture) so I'd like to stabalize that maybe, or maybe even try to push that to 3666c14 stable? 3733c14...stable? DRAM Calc says I can do it via my IMPORTED TAIPHOON XMP??

(see other pics) -- my kit also says based on taiphoon XMP imported, that my kit is 114% quality and can do close to [email protected]??? (see pic)




Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

Grab y-cruncher, stresstest, enable all settings and be sure your setup doesn't crash out of nothing
As these are high voltages, its expected you to hit near 85-90c don't worry too much
Let it throttle, it just has to remain stable
Post later on a screenshot of 2 passed cycles



^ do all that @ 3600MT/s forced 1-1 mode and fixed memory settings
Keep 34ohm procODT for now , you might need 37 later on for higher speeds
Same comment as above... don't even know what timings/settings/clock speeds you want me to run at, same comment as above for voltage....


Quote: Originally Posted by Veii View Post

Please report back with a pass and a ryzen master screenshot
I'm on my phone, soo maybe rares could link you a post of mine which suggests voltages for it
As you are using an X570 board, VDDG IOD doesn't need to be high
But I'm strongly suspecting CPU in stability at the start
After all, Asus BIOSes these days do well with setting prediction
But voltages are still a mess on agesa 1004
going too fast for me here......
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post #22 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 08:32 AM
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I have a Asus X570 Crosshair Hero VIII and I am assuming the bios is likely very similar. While I don't have experience with your exact kit and cpu, when I get home from work this evening I can take some screenshots and try to help explain some settings/voltages that you have said you need specifics on. I can't magically solve your issue for you but I can try to help at least a little. In my experience OC'ing AMD CPU's/MEM has a bit of a learning curve.

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post #23 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nitethorn View Post
I have a Asus X570 Crosshair Hero VIII and I am assuming the bios is likely very similar. While I don't have experience with your exact kit and cpu, when I get home from work this evening I can take some screenshots and try to help explain some settings/voltages that you have said you need specifics on. I can't magically solve your issue for you but I can try to help at least a little. In my experience OC'ing AMD CPU's/MEM has a bit of a learning curve.
Thank you

Like I said, most of my confusion stems from directly contradicting information... Like above, a asus screenshot about SOC voltage is called different than mine (how many different "soc" voltages are there?) -- I have well-intentioned replies (see above) that say things like: "DONT TOUCH THAT"... but then "yeah that's fine..." ...... guides (linked above) that contradict that information...
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post #24 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 05:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by negativefusion View Post
Thank you

Like I said, most of my confusion stems from directly contradicting information... Like above, a asus screenshot about SOC voltage is called different than mine (how many different "soc" voltages are there?) -- I have well-intentioned replies (see above) that say things like: "DONT TOUCH THAT"... but then "yeah that's fine..." ...... guides (linked above) that contradict that information...
Ok so I'm going to post some pics with some basic info. I am by no means an expert, but I do spend a ton of time tweaking my system and playing with settings in the BIOS. It's been a long day and I'm a little frazzled, but I think some of this is what you were after. I'll be on for a bit if you need me to elaborate on something specific. I did want to mention though, did you go to the additional calculations tab of the calculator and mess with/adjust any LLC or power phase settings?
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post #25 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nitethorn View Post
Ok so I'm going to post some pics with some basic info. I am by no means an expert, but I do spend a ton of time tweaking my system and playing with settings in the BIOS. It's been a long day and I'm a little frazzled, but I think some of this is what you were after. I'll be on for a bit if you need me to elaborate on something specific. I did want to mention though, did you go to the additional calculations tab of the calculator and mess with/adjust any LLC or power phase settings?
Thanks for taking the time to post and the comments!

Thanks for confirming vsoc, that was confusing, because this guide is wrong ( https://github.com/integralfx/MemTes...0OC%20Guide.md ), specifically tells me to look for "VDDCR SOC" which isn't found anywhere, even the previous guy here helping got confused with "yeah, don't touch that!" to... "oh, yeah, no that's fine" :|

So the vsoc has pretty much always been on 1.1...

I do have the "additional calculations" in the dram calc, but never used them - the general advice was always "dont touch voltages!!!!" except ddr 1.35 > 1.4 or 1.45MAX (and of course vsoc)

About 1 of your pics: "DRAM CTRL REF VOLTAGE ON CHA_B" - I don't understand your comment what is "on my ch8" ? In your picture you said "at 1.46 dram voltage, I technically CHA and CHB at 0.91v" ... but the picture shows 0.630000000 ???

I don't even think I have the "Tweakers Paradise" or the "Extreme Tweaker" option in my motherboard, I posted a pic: https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...2&d=1588684490 I have "AI Tweaker"

The earlier comment about TERMINATION is still unclear, yes there are ALTS, but they are in different blocks like there is a TRFC (ALT), there is a TERMINATION BLOCK ALT Recommended, alt1, and alt2, same for CAD BUS.

So like if something doesn't boot.. what's my next step? Do I change TRFC ALT? and try again? do I change just termination block to alt1? do I change TRFC ALT AND termination block to alt 1? do I revert TRFC to default, and just change termination block to alt 1? do I just change termination block to alt 1, AND CAD_BUS_BLOCK from REC to alt 1 as well? do I change ALL trfcalt, term block to alt1, AND cadbus to block 1? Like there are many differnent permutations, just telling me "use the alt" doesn't help because there are too many combinations/permutations of alts I can apply -- this is what I think @Veii said he'd try to help with later

Either way...

My problem basically now is: I have stress tested the sticks at STOCK XMP 3600c16 - it's stable.

I have tried various alternating settings of 3800c16 (fclk1900 1:1:1), 3800c18(fclk1900 1:1:1), 3600c14(1800fclk 1:1:1), a different 3600c14 (1800fclk 1:1:1) some variation of 3733(I think c16? may have been 14 I forgot!) -- they all yield crashes and errors during memtest...

So I am looking for advice on where exactly to start... I am not looking to perfect my build and shave off a nanosecond somewhere in some obscure timing or get an extra 200MB/s in bandwidth added to my 50GBps bandwidth -- I am looking to tweak these/improve these reasonably easily/safely/reliably, and calling it a day

if you saw my post on page 2, the 3733 FAST profile (imported) says I can do c14 ... so if I wanted to perhaps shoot for either of these 2 profiles from my current stock/stable/tested XMP 3600c16-18-18 -- how do I start?
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post #26 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 07:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by negativefusion View Post
Thanks for taking the time to post and the comments!

Thanks for confirming vsoc, that was confusing, because this guide is wrong ( https://github.com/integralfx/MemTes...0OC%20Guide.md ), specifically tells me to look for "VDDCR SOC" which isn't found anywhere, even the previous guy here helping got confused with "yeah, don't touch that!" to... "oh, yeah, no that's fine" :|

So the vsoc has pretty much always been on 1.1...

I do have the "additional calculations" in the dram calc, but never used them - the general advice was always "dont touch voltages!!!!" except ddr 1.35 > 1.4 or 1.45MAX (and of course vsoc)

About 1 of your pics: "DRAM CTRL REF VOLTAGE ON CHA_B" - I don't understand your comment what is "on my ch8" ? In your picture you said "at 1.46 dram voltage, I technically CHA and CHB at 0.91v" ... but the picture shows 0.630000000 ???

I don't even think I have the "Tweakers Paradise" or the "Extreme Tweaker" option in my motherboard, I posted a pic: https://www.overclock.net/forum/atta...2&d=1588684490 I have "AI Tweaker"

The earlier comment about TERMINATION is still unclear, yes there are ALTS, but they are in different blocks like there is a TRFC (ALT), there is a TERMINATION BLOCK ALT Recommended, alt1, and alt2, same for CAD BUS.

So like if something doesn't boot.. what's my next step? Do I change TRFC ALT? and try again? do I change just termination block to alt1? do I change TRFC ALT AND termination block to alt 1? do I revert TRFC to default, and just change termination block to alt 1? do I just change termination block to alt 1, AND CAD_BUS_BLOCK from REC to alt 1 as well? do I change ALL trfcalt, term block to alt1, AND cadbus to block 1? Like there are many differnent permutations, just telling me "use the alt" doesn't help because there are too many combinations/permutations of alts I can apply -- this is what I think @Veii said he'd try to help with later

Either way...

My problem basically now is: I have stress tested the sticks at STOCK XMP 3600c16 - it's stable.

I have tried various alternating settings of 3800c16 (fclk1900 1:1:1), 3800c18(fclk1900 1:1:1), 3600c14(1800fclk 1:1:1), a different 3600c14 (1800fclk 1:1:1) some variation of 3733(I think c16? may have been 14 I forgot!) -- they all yield crashes and errors during memtest...

So I am looking for advice on where exactly to start... I am not looking to perfect my build and shave off a nanosecond somewhere in some obscure timing or get an extra 200MB/s in bandwidth added to my 50GBps bandwidth -- I am looking to tweak these/improve these reasonably easily/safely/reliably, and calling it a day

if you saw my post on page 2, the 3733 FAST profile (imported) says I can do c14 ... so if I wanted to perhaps shoot for either of these 2 profiles from my current stock/stable/tested XMP 3600c16-18-18 -- how do I start?
CH8 = Crosshair Hero VIII, my motherboard. So, the way the CHA and CHB ref voltages work on this board is that the value you enter represents a %, and not an actual voltage value. So, if my DRAM voltage is at 1.46, and I set the value for vref cha or chb to 0.63 (max for my board), it would basically mean 63% of 1.46. Which is 0.91.

As far as the alt values, I would change them one at a time to see if one makes any noticeable difference at all. Make a note if one doesn't work, but did allow the system to make it further than before. As far as which one to start with, I'm sure a lot of the people here would have a better idea than me. My personal approach in just trying to find basic stability, is to set all of those tertiary timings to auto for now and focus on your primary timings and voltage. For stability sake, I would enable geardown mode at least for now. Possibly up your voltage (I wouldn't recommend exceeding 1.48v until you have a better idea what your kit can handle safely). Start with your known stable XMP settings. Up the voltage (as well as other voltages mentioned in the calculator), and start trimming back your primary timings (tCL, tRCDWR, tRCDRD, tRP, tRAS, tRC) a single digit at a time until you reach instability, then go back up a notch. Once you get that established, you can start tweaking the tertiary timings and start to really see what you can push the kit to do.

One last thing. On my board, certain settings that you set in the main bios page also need to be set in the Advanced tab in order for them to stick. It's weird, but I about went crazy when I first got this board til I figured that out. Something to double check. (p.s. in your pic you have dram voltage set to auto.... definitely crank that up, at the very least 1.35)

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post #27 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-05-2020, 07:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by negativefusion View Post
...even the previous guy here...
I see. I'm just "the previous guy" now. Is it really over between us?

Spoiler!


But yeah, the DRAM calculator is drunk. The 3733 settings will never work. tCL14 at that frequency is a B-die only thing. Plus tFAW is way too low. Should be around 30-32.

Try these timings at 3600/3733:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...39VCJN99iG.jpg

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post #28 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-06-2020, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nitethorn View Post
CH8 = Crosshair Hero VIII, my motherboard. So, the way the CHA and CHB ref voltages work on this board is that the value you enter represents a %, and not an actual voltage value. So, if my DRAM voltage is at 1.46, and I set the value for vref cha or chb to 0.63 (max for my board), it would basically mean 63% of 1.46. Which is 0.91.
I have never seen these used or even mentioned in any of the guides (am I blind or is it in dram calculator that I am missing?). I don't even know what they do, or what number to use, like you said max for your board is 0.63 -- how/where do you find that? Whats the point of it?
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post #29 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-06-2020, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by rares495 View Post
I see. I'm just "the previous guy" now. Is it really over between us?

Spoiler!


But yeah, the DRAM calculator is drunk. The 3733 settings will never work. tCL14 at that frequency is a B-die only thing. Plus tFAW is way too low. Should be around 30-32.

Try these timings at 3600/3733:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...39VCJN99iG.jpg
Its the forum, unlike other forums, when I reply, it doesn't show the previous posts, all I have is this box to type in. So its hard to remember the names...

So when you say try those timings, just the timings shown in that ZENTIMINGS window correct? Ignore rest? everything else auto?

You said my kit would not do 3733c14 -- but you think it'll c15 -- an odd #? like his?
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post #30 of 103 (permalink) Old 05-06-2020, 10:40 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by negativefusion View Post
Its the forum, unlike other forums, when I reply, it doesn't show the previous posts, all I have is this box to type in. So its hard to remember the names...

So when you say try those timings, just the timings shown in that ZENTIMINGS window correct? Ignore rest? everything else auto?

You said my kit would not do 3733c14 -- but you think it'll c15 -- an odd #? like his?
You could try those timings in the image but also apply the other settings (Vsoc, VDDG, VDDP, procODT and cad_bus)

I think your kit could boot with the timings in the image with some more tuning. You need to find out the proper voltages and resistances.

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Sapphire RX 580 Nitro+ 8GB
RAM
2x8GB Kingston HyperX Fury @1600 CL10
Hard Drive
Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 1TB
Power Supply
Super Flower Golden King Pro SF-500P14PE 500W 80+ Platinum
Cooling
Intel Stock Cooler
Case
Zalman Z11+
Operating System
Windows 10 x64
Monitor
Asus VG245HE TN 1080p 75hz
Keyboard
Logitech G710+
Mouse
Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Mousepad
Logitech G440
Audio
Logitech X-540 5.1
CPU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Motherboard
Gigabyte P43-ES3G
GPU
Asus R9 270X Top 2GB
RAM
2x2048MB Kingston DDR2 800mhz
Hard Drive
Samsung 840 EVO 120GB
Hard Drive
WD Blue 1TB
Power Supply
Sirtec High-Power 80+ 400W
Cooling
Some 92mm cooler
Case
Zalman Z11+
Operating System
Win 7 Ultimate x64
Monitor
Several LG/BenQ 17" 1280x1024 75hz
Keyboard
Logitech G710+ MX Brown
Mouse
Logitech G502 Proteus Core
Mouse
Razer DeathAdder 2013
Mousepad
Logitech G440 hardmat
Mousepad
Razer Goliathus Speed WoT Edition
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