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Just got the Ryzen 7 3700X, where do I go from here?

 
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 04:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got the Ryzen 7 3700X, where do I go from here?

I recently did a long overdue upgrade from a Core i5 2500K (by the way, this forum gave it to me!) that has served me more than well forever (best platform ever, I'm going to miss it!), and now I have a Ryzen 7 3700X. Windows 7 support was gone, new consoles are coming, and most pressingly, my prior 16 GB of RAM wasn't cutting it. So, I decided last last year/early this year to finally stop putting it off, so here I am. Everything... everything, is different.

From what I've come to understand over the last few months of trying to educate myself on what's changed...

1. Modern CPUs now boost on their own by default? They take into account voltage and thermal headroom and boost beyond their base clock, and the extent of this boost also depends on how heavy the load is (how many cores are utilized).

2. Modern CPUs are therefore clocked/clocking closer to their ceilings than before.

With those two things, it seems gone are the times where you'd (usually) reliably get several upon several hundred MHz of performance. I went from 3 GHz and 3.33 GHz to 4 GHz on my last two CPUs (Core 2 Duo E8600 and Core i5 2500K) but it seems this won't be possible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and the me of today is more prone to just want it to work with less maintenance and hassle needed over the long run (so I tend to settle for milder overclocks, also for noise and temperature reasons) instead of having to spend dozens or hundreds of hours between the BIOS, monitoring programs, stress tests, and potential program or PC crashes to dial in a perfect balance. That being said... I'm not at all opposed to spending the needed time if it's worth doing more than "leave everything on default". Besides setting D.O.C.P., that's basically where I'm at right now. I'm just a bit conflicted on how much overclocking (or tuning) is even warranted now.

So I am looking for some pointers. I'm a bit lost with some things, namely, voltage. I was shocked when I first booted into the BIOS (and the mouse is so laggy there compared to my previous motherboard...) and saw voltage North of 1.4V on this 7nm CPU when my 32nm Sandy Bridge had far less (1.2xV if I remember right, because I remember everyone back then saying "stay below 1.4V"). I was shocked to see my DDR4 RAM using the same voltage my DDR3 RAM did. So... I'm getting the feeling there's a combination of more researching that I need to do to learn more combined with possibly tuning some things and not leaving it all to auto since, in the past, auto tended to overcompensate, but with CPUs boosting in accordance with voltage, I've read you don't want to undervolt it much either, as while this can help temperatures, it also potentially hurts single/lighter core boosting performance if you drop it more than a small amount? I'm... a bit lost, but I'm trying to get a hold of it all.

Here's what I'm using.

ASUS ROG STRIX B-550F Gaming
Ryzen 7 3700X
64 GB DDR4 G.Skill RipJaws V

I am currently using the stock boxed CPU heatsink that comes with the Ryzen 7 3700X, but I'm planning to get a Thermalright LGMRT. Since I have the motherboard, CPU, and RAM now, I wanted to make sure it all worked as I can change the CPU cooler later (and I need to reinstall my OS and adjust to Windows 10 too...).

I also learned there's "motherboard topology" that comes into play, namely when using a greater amount of RAM modules? I've no idea what mine is (or what exists as potential topology) but I've used 4 modules for my last 3 platforms without ill effects. That being said, I've never got super fast RAM; I tend to set X.M.P. and call it a day.

I'm still trying to learn voltages, as in Windows I'm seeing 0.488V at idle and just over 1V at all core load (so I'm not sure what the 1.4V+ was in BIOS but it seems to max there too in Windows, so... maybe lighter loads or spiking before Vdrop/Vdroop?). Is this much voltage dangerous for Zen 2, or at least, borderline too much? Does anything look off, or a reason to manually set something in the BIOS?





I appear to be getting near the "up to 4.4 GHz boost" advertised, and with all cores loaded, it's around 3.7 GHz (100 MHz higher than base clock), so... everything is in order? I'm a bit confused as to the score being lower than reference (single thread was higher though at 520). Is there additionally steps I need to (and should) take for better results? I just had HW Monitor and CPU-Z at hand during the Windows install, so any other software I should fetch for this?

I'm a bit worried about whatever that 78 C reading is too, and it seems to move seldomly whether at idle or load.

Thank you in advance for any help, and sorry for the dozens of questions. It's just been so long and so much has changed (also my first time back on AMD since before Core 2 days).

"The heart has it's reasons that reason knows nothing of."

Last edited by Princess Garnet; 06-29-2020 at 04:15 AM.
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:08 AM
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Ok as a new AMD user myself i'll try and share a few things I've learnt so far;

The 4.4 boost really only means one or two cores not all core. Generally Zen2 doesn't overclock very well compared the Intel chips. I've just built my first AMD rig in the past 15 years. It's a weird thing to get your head around. Personally i wouldn't bother attempting to overclock the CPU.

As for your CPUZ score, it's because once it gets near 75°c it starts to throttle the boost back towards the base clock of 3.6. Best thing is to keep it as cool as possible.
I have a 280mm watercooler and i get around 4Ghz with constant load on that test.

RAM, just make sure your ram is running faster than 2100MHz which a lot tend to with default settings. Did you say you enabled XMP and it was fine and running at 3600?

I'm not sure what tempin4 is. maybe VRM? Does seem high though.

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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 08:31 AM
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The main thing to OC/tweak imo is the memory, because as you already pointed out, the cpu clocks basically boost as high as possible out of the box depending on power/temperature.

I'd check out the Ryzen dram calculator/thread and get all the primary, secondary and tertiary timings tightened up. You want to make sure you keep your memory clock and your fclk at a 1:1 ratio for best performance. Typically the fclk maxes out around 1866/1900 so 3733/3800 memory is the max you want to run to keep that 1:1. If you stay at 1800 fclk/3600 mem that is fine too.

The timings really do make a decent difference, can be 10% or more increase in gaming by tightening them.

After that I'd mess with the pbo settings, PDT/EDC/TDC, for maybe another 1-2% increase. Really dependent on cooling though to get the extra performance/clocks.

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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-04-2020, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by DetLoki View Post
The 4.4 boost really only means one or two cores not all core. Generally Zen2 doesn't overclock very well compared the Intel chips. I've just built my first AMD rig in the past 15 years. It's a weird thing to get your head around. Personally i wouldn't bother attempting to overclock the CPU.
When I was researching and trying to catch up on the modern CPUs, I came to the understanding of that, but even if the clocks are lower on AMD's side, Intel seems to have pushed Skylake near its limits and the power draw and heat seem even higher on their recent lineups. More importantly, I would have been having to pay the Intel tax to get an equivalent Core i7 10700K platform ($170 difference in CPU alone) for maybe a little more single threaded performance (along with the other drawbacks) and I decided the AMD was a better option for me right now. So, I'm not fussed with the lower overclocking; clock speed is just a number. I'm just worried about performance relative to my own limits (as in, not leaving any easy and obvious performance aside by not setting something a certain way or whatever).
Quote: Originally Posted by DetLoki View Post
As for your CPUZ score, it's because once it gets near 75°c it starts to throttle the boost back towards the base clock of 3.6. Best thing is to keep it as cool as possible.
I have a 280mm watercooler and i get around 4Ghz with constant load on that test.
Makes sense, but outside the 78C outlier (which can't be the CPU as it stays there even at idle), the highest I'm seeing is 67C. Shouldn't it have a bit more headroom yet?

I'm not too fussed since it's the stock cooler and I won't be staying with it, but I guess I was expecting the CPU-Z "reference" scores to emulate the CPU under a rather stock configuration, meaning stock cooler and all. I just wanted to make sure mine wasn't missing performing since I left everything on auto, but once I have the CPU cooler I'll permanently move over to the new platform and start trying to settle on it more.

Unrelated but related question; I need to purchase Windows 10 as well to do so. Are the "cheaper key sites" legit, or should I avoid them? Microsoft sells keys for $129 but these are ~$10 to $25 and it seems strange, but they are all over. I have my Windows 7 key, but I'm not fully comfortable retiring it to be honest.
Quote: Originally Posted by DetLoki View Post
RAM, just make sure your ram is running faster than 2100MHz which a lot tend to with default settings. Did you say you enabled XMP and it was fine and running at 3600?
Yeah, seems so. RAM is running at 3600 MHz at CL16-19-19-39 timings, but I haven't done any real stress testing besides using CPU-Z to give it some load to check the basics. I never had issues with X.M.P. (or now D.O.C.P., same thing?) just working, so I'm glad I didn't here either.

Quote: Originally Posted by icehotshot View Post
The main thing to OC/tweak imo is the memory, because as you already pointed out, the cpu clocks basically boost as high as possible out of the box depending on power/temperature.

I'd check out the Ryzen dram calculator/thread and get all the primary, secondary and tertiary timings tightened up. You want to make sure you keep your memory clock and your fclk at a 1:1 ratio for best performance. Typically the fclk maxes out around 1866/1900 so 3733/3800 memory is the max you want to run to keep that 1:1. If you stay at 1800 fclk/3600 mem that is fine too.

The timings really do make a decent difference, can be 10% or more increase in gaming by tightening them.

After that I'd mess with the pbo settings, PDT/EDC/TDC, for maybe another 1-2% increase. Really dependent on cooling though to get the extra performance/clocks.
Thanks for the information; there certainly seems to be a lot to learn.

DRAM calculators? So much more these days than when I was last up to speed on it all. That will be new to me since I typically never chased the most high performance RAM sets. I was already spending a lot on RAM due to quantity so it would have been even harder to justify that anyway, so I doubt what I have is capable of top results. I did pay an extra $30 or so for the same stuff with a primary timing of CL of 16 instead of CL 19 though, but that was more because CL 19 at 3600 MHz seemed low to me (?).

When I checked the BIOS, the FCLK was reported at 1800 MHz and RAM at 3600 MHz. I'd be okay with staying there and potentially tightening timings (if at all; I'd probably be happy with them at D.O.C.P. honestly but IF there's room for improvement, 10% sounds nice).

If anyone else has feedback about a Ryzen 3600, 3700, 3800, etc. on the ASUS B550 (or I guess even B450 or maybe X570 too), I'd appreciate the input.

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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 07-04-2020, 05:57 PM
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