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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 06:46 AM
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Heh, one of my coworkers attached a sticky note to the top of a stack of reports I was to complete that read:
"th reports r good so compplete them if u havent yet"

I cried on the inside.

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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 06:47 AM
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Well, sometimes I formulate and sometimes I jam--and that's what allows our language to evolve (I am a graduate from the College of Arts and Sciences at NorthWestern University with a B.A. in Poetry). And the abbreviations are neither ignorant nor a sign of stupidity as MrSmiley so eloquently stated, but rather a direct link to how Logos functions. The power of language is that it is a virus and our brain the host--the by product of this relationship is Mind--that ineffable radiation of thought and conciousness we all experience regardless of the language we use.

The reality of language is that vernacular English is about 200 years beyond text-based language (i.e. Websters) and is a living, adaptive and amalgamating expression of our current trend of concious awareness and social needs. Coded or generationally specific terms have always been a part of the nautilus-like expansion of any living tongue as a way for each new crop of Minds to differentiate themselves from their parents' Minds in order to re-order reality more to their current needs.

As William S. Burroughs (not related to the IBM Burroughs by the way) said best--"Language is a Virus."

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August 13th, 2011 sad-smiley-002.gif Happy trails, may we meet again.


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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 06:52 AM
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adas
well, i try, but most people in all countries have a lot of the same abreviations/shotcuts like lol, ***, and brb.
There are certain abbreviations that have gained universal understanding in the Internet context, sure. Just as no one is likely to mind using FYI or ASAP, common internet abbreviations and acronyms such as LOL and IIRC generally escape my criticism. After all, such abbreviations have been in common use on USENET for decades, long before web forums were a twinkle in anyone's eye.

But the line has to be drawn at the chat room abbreviations. Anyone who uses "2" instead of "to" needs to be seriously beaten. They have saved themselves a grand total of one keystroke, and made themselves look like a two year old writing with crayons. I expect the problem to get worse, not better, though. Every kid these days seems to be into text messaging on cell phones, and no lazy kid is going to spell things out using a phone's keypad. (Actually this is a whole different pet peeve of mine. It's a phone, you can talk to me; why are you sending me text messages, you freak?!?)

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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon
There are certain abbreviations that have gained universal understanding in the Internet context, sure. Just as no one is likely to mind using FYI or ASAP, common internet abbreviations and acronyms such as LOL and IIRC generally escape my criticism. After all, such abbreviations have been in common use on USENET for decades, long before web forums were a twinkle in anyone's eye.

But the line has to be drawn at the chat room abbreviations. Anyone who uses "2" instead of "to" needs to be seriously beaten. They have saved themselves a grand total of one keystroke, and made themselves look like a two year old writing with crayons. I expect the problem to get worse, not better, though. Every kid these days seems to be into text messaging on cell phones, and no lazy kid is going to spell things out using a phone's keypad. (Actually this is a whole different pet peeve of mine. It's a phone, you can talk to me; why are you sending me text messages, you freak?!?)
While I fully agree with you on the phone texting thing, it does have it's benefits, like while at school/work. Though, in that case, you are trying to burn time away so you should be doing full text. Also, people, it's just nice on other people's eyes to stay with proper English. What inspired this "rant" was this. (Hell, English is not my first language). https://www.overclock.net/showthread....7&page=2&pp=10
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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
(Actually this is a whole different pet peeve of mine. It's a phone, you can talk to me; why are you sending me text messages, you freak?!?)
I am 33 and I started texting with my phone because it is cheaper and more conveniant (<<spelling?)for quick messages.
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon
Anyone who uses "2" instead of "to" needs to be seriously beaten.
That is great!



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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDruid
Well, sometimes I formulate and sometimes I jam--and that's what allows our language to evolve (I am a graduate from the College of Arts and Sciences at NorthWestern University with a B.A. in Poetry). And the abbreviations are neither ignorant nor a sign of stupidity as MrSmiley so eloquently stated, but rather a direct link to how Logos functions. The power of language is that it is a virus and our brain the host--the by product of this relationship is Mind--that ineffable radiation of thought and conciousness we all experience regardless of the language we use.

The reality of language is that vernacular English is about 200 years beyond text-based language (i.e. Websters) and is a living, adaptive and amalgamating expression of our current trend of concious awareness and social needs. Coded or generationally specific terms have always been a part of the nautilus-like expansion of any living tongue as a way for each new crop of Minds to differentiate themselves from their parents' Minds in order to re-order reality more to their current needs.

As William S. Burroughs (not related to the IBM Burroughs by the way) said best--"Language is a Virus."

JMO (lol)
I couldn't have said it better myself. No, really, I couldn't.
Although essentially I agree with Mr. Smiley; in that we should all stick to certain conventions so that our posts are readable by ALL users, it is important to understand that our language will change and evolve - as cyber druid said. I am not against the use of "slang" in posts, for this slang will become tommorro's formal language. Just like shakespearian terms have now been lost, ours will too in time. And although certain abbriviations do irritate me greatly, I think we need to be tolerant of them.

This is not to say though, that people should ignore punctuation and "good" grammar.
"wheres my PC mate" for example, could be interpreted as "Where's my PC, mate?" or "Where's my "PC" mate?". The former asking his friend where his computer is, and the latter asking where his "Politicaly Correct" friend is.
(Odd example, sorry).
But the point is, posts should be punctuated so that there is only ONE way that they can be interpreted. Simply to avoid confusion.

Anyway, that's just my .02
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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmiley
Even though this belongs else where, do not move it mods. This should be a statement about typing online.

For some reason folks believe that being on the Internet somehow suspends the rules of grammar and punctuation.

For what it's worth, I posted this on the DC Forums to try to explain my thought process as to the reason we should always attempt to use proper spelling, grammar, and punctuation and am reposting it here for your reading pleasure with a couple of slight edits.


First, most of the folks on here (not all) don't jump on the "use proper spelling and grammar" bandwagon when it is pretty obvious that the poster is not a native English speaker. That said, those of us that ARE native speakers, need to use proper spelling and grammar. Not just on this forum, but in most, if not all, written communication. I am not talking about an occasional typographical error. That happens to everyone. I am talking about a total lack of attention to detail.

Why does this bug me you ask? Well, I am certainly glad that you asked. Let's look at the reasons. First, as someone that speaks more than one language it is extremely difficult to follow written communication in the second language when dealing with typos. There are a ton of colloquialisms used on this forum. Those, and slang terminology make it difficult enough to follow without adding in a total disregard for spelling and grammar rules that any fifth grader should know.

Now, put non-native speakers aside for a second. We are a community. Supposedly a community of intelligent people. This forum shows up on Google for certain technical queries. That means that people outside of our community will come here seeking knowledge from time to time. Do we want the impression they get of WarDrivers to be juvenile punks with no basic communication skills? I don't want that.

Third, as mentioned above, emotion is difficult to convey in the written word. It is even more difficult when you have to wade through a paragraph of ub3r 1337 h4x0r speak dat ur n07 int3re5ted in neway. Your post is much more likely to be misconstrued if you don't take the time to spell out what you mean and formulate a coherent thought.

Fourth, this isn't AIM, IRC, ICQ, SMS or any other real time chat application. In those type of services a person often needs to quickly get their response across otherwise it gets lost in the sea of other responses. It also helps a conversation flow to quickly get a response out. This forum isn't real time. You have the luxury of time to formulate a response and the ability to directly quote the person you are responding to in order to clarify the reason your response is relevant.

Finally, and this goes hand in hand with my second point. It makes you look ignorant if you don't use proper grammar and spelling. It's as simple as that. Contrary to the evidence presented here from time to time, I do not think the core 'OC' user is ignorant. I do think some of us are lazy. They go hand in hand. There is a reason that sloth is one of the seven deadly sins.

So, in conclusion, make an attempt at proper grammar and spelling when you post. The meaning of your post is much more likely to come across as you intended and you will not look foolish (or if you do it will be for the content of your post, not the presentation).
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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-28-2005, 09:21 AM
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MrSmiley, I too am surprised at the amount of bloodshed the English language, grammar and spelling take out here at times. I think one reason is that there are times when people are scrambling in order to be the first responder in order to get that oh so important reppage. My personal experience has been that posts of mine have earned recognition well into a thread. Why does that happen? I believe it is for two reasons:

1. I almost never resort to shortcuts when writing. IMHO it dumbs me down. I know better and to ignor it is short changing myself. In addition, with some reflection it could be argued that is has an undertone of disrespect, not only to others but to one's self. A coherant, well structured response has a much greater sense of reliabilty. That is usually how I decide whose input to trust.

2. I believe in being thorough. Although getting an answer is usually the focus, getting educated is much more effective. My responses are typically long (and maybe long winded) but I believe they imbue a greater sense of encompassment. I feel this helps build one's knowledge base and allows for expansion via critical thinking. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he need not ever go hungry.

One of the hallmarks of a developed, cultured society is literature. Most if not all the great works written over time were created with the absence of the argot of the time it was written in. I was told at least once (though it seems like it was many more) that anything worth putting to paper was worth doing right. As far as I am concerned this medium is no different especially since many more people will likely view what I write here versus a paper I write for a class. Typo's & skipped words are simple errors due to trying to quickly convey a stream of consciousness and occasional l337 5p34|< has its place. What concerns me is when it becomes chronic.

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