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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 05:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I have a single Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB RAM stick installed (cml16gx3m2a1600c10) - http://www.corsair.com/en-gb/vengeance-low-profile-16gb-dual-channel-ddr3-memory-kit-cml16gx3m2a1600c10

The default (X.M.P) settings for the RAM stick were
1600MHz with Timings: 10,10,10,27 with CR - 2

I was reading around on OC'ing my RAM and read how CR 1 is better than CR 2 then saw few other posts saying how it doesn't matter much etc but went ahead and changed it to CR 1. So far it was good.

Then I went ahead and tried to OC my memory.
I went from

1.5V - 1600MHz - 10,10,10,27,CR-1

To

1.65V - 1866MHz - 10,11,11,31,CR-1

I did a few benchmark tests in AIDA64 and the read,write and latency improved slightly.

Default settings 1600MHz - 10,10,10,27,CR-1 @ 1.5v
Read: 12560mb/s
Write: 12489
Latency 57.3ns

New settings - 1866 - 10-11-11-31-CR1 @ 1.65v
Read: 14571
Write: 14527
Latency: 52ns


I suppose this is a small change, but I was hoping If I could get some advice on whether this small OC was worth it. I do not go for benchmark scores or anything, i mainly use my computer for gaming, and currently trying to squeeze whatever performance I can out of my old rig.

Specs:
i5 3570k @ 4.3GHz 1.2v
8GB RAM^
MSI GTX 970 (OC'd)
PSU: Corsair TX650


Was this OC worth it for possibly a small performance boost? Adding the extra voltage and messing with the frequency and timings, or should I just go back to stock, 1600MHz 10,10,10,27,CR1.



Thanks for your time.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 06:09 PM
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Of course overclock your memory!

Why only one stick from the kit?

SuperPi is a nice quick and dirty memory benchmark program. Just run the 1M setting with each different overclock and average out three runs for each.
Then take the two or three best overclocks and bench them with FutureMard, Cinebench or FurMark. (or all three!)

Be aware that different games benefit differently from memory overclocking. Some almost not at all.

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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks I'll check that out.

Sadly I got this PC quite a while back and my knowledge in computers was quite bad. (Got it custom built) and the specification was 8GB but they decided to put a single 1 stick in. Not sure if dual 4gb sticks would of been better or not.

Should I expect a good gain in game performance in general by OC'ing my memory? or will it be minimal.

Apart from SuperPi, is there any other memory test I should use? Such as HCIDesign MemTest?

Also if you could give me a rough idea of what a good RAM OC would be that would be great. Like frequency's and Timings that I should stay around - Because I know we're just meant to change the main 4 frequencies but I am not sure which out of them all I should be changing first, which I should aim to keep the lowest etc. If you could like me a good guide or explain this to me if you have that, that would be really awesome.

Thanks again smile.gif
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 09:08 PM
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1600 to 1866 is a 16% overclock and memory is about 3% of performance for modern CPUs.
So 3% of 16% is only about 0.5% performance gain.

Run the memory at 1600 with defaults set for all the timings.and write down what they default to.
Manually set all the timings to those and then start slowly raising the memory speed until it won't boot.
Then try raising the other three timings and see if you can get it to boot.

A little tome I wrote about memory timings:

Memory latency, or timings, like the number 10 in CL 10, are the length of time it takes the memory to complete a step in what it has to do. That "time" is measured in "clock ticks", ie CL 10 takes 10 clock ticks to complete before the memory can move on to it's next operation. The length of one clock tick is the speed at which the memory is running. 1800 MHz memory has a clock tick length of one 1,800,000,000th of a second (1,800,000,000 clock ticks per second), so the CL step takes 10 x 1/1,800,000,000 seconds.

A stick of memory always takes the same amount of time to complete it's CL step (or any other step) no matter what speed it is running. If you run the above memory stick faster, say 2400 MHz, it still takes 10 x 1/1,800,000,000 seconds to complete the CL step, but each clock tick is now 1/2,400,000,000 of a second, so it now would take more clock ticks to complete the CL step. Namely, 24/18 times 10 (for CL step) or 13.3 clock ticks (10 times 24/18 clock ticks). But, alas, that has to be rounded to to CL 14 as memory can't use partial clock ticks.

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I was playing GTAv for hours with no problems. But went into Mafia 3 and blue screened within minutes. I will reset and OC my memory using your method. Is it okay for me to start off at 1.65v and find a good stable OC then try lower the voltage once stable?

I know I cant boost when going over 1600MHz at default timings despite using 1.65v. but what I am unsure about is which one of the 4 timings should I increase first. Or does it not matter.

Also you said to adjust the other 3 timings. But am I not also increasing the 4th timing? E.g. 10-10-10-27 (would I not increase the 27 slowly too? To help with the OC.

As I am new to OCing ram I struggled a bit to understand the 2nd paragraph of your explanation.

I'll do more research into RAM OCing and check out some videos too tomorrow.


I appreciate all the help you're giving me!

EDIT: Since I can't increase the frequency without increasing the timings. I may try keep the frequency the same and lower the timings. I guess that may provide better results for me? Will increasing the voltage help in this sktuation? (Starting at 1.65v and lowering if stable).
Also should I keep my Command Rate at default 2N or is it better to use 1N if stable for performance?
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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 12:42 AM
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Of all the timings CAS will have the most effect on performance.
1.65 volts is kind of hard on memory. maybe OK for a temporary overclock for benchmarking. I'd stick to 1.6 volts for an "everyday" overclock.

Leave the command rate at 2T
When the MC (Memory Controller) first tries to access memory, it has to latch onto a memory bank, known as CS (Chip Select). Then it proceeds to find the column (CAS), the Row (RAS), and then return the data to the CPU. Now, 1T means it takes 1 clock cycle to "find" a memory bank, vs. 2T where it takes 2 clock cycles to "find" the memory bank. But there's a sorta quirk, this only happens the first time data is attempted to be fetched from memory, and all subsequent accesses to that chip are done w/o delay, making the command rate null after the initial chip fetch.



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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 12:46 AM
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https://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated
have a look through my ram timing rule.
If you don't understand how it works take a screen shot of your bios ram timings and I'll give you a few sets of timings to try out

Guys may dissagree
But I think that 1.8Volts is alrright for daily usage even on air.
I reckon that you should use mem test to occupy your ram and run it for an hour and touch your ram to see how hot it is. If it dosen't burn your hand then its good.
I had ran ram at real high voltages like 1.96Volts on air cooling. And I still have those rams today in working condition and seen zero degration.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

https://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated
have a look through my ram timing rule.
.
Nice!

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

Of all the timings CAS will have the most effect on performance.
1.65 volts is kind of hard on memory. maybe OK for a temporary overclock for benchmarking. I'd stick to 1.6 volts for an "everyday" overclock.

Leave the command rate at 2T
When the MC (Memory Controller) first tries to access memory, it has to latch onto a memory bank, known as CS (Chip Select). Then it proceeds to find the column (CAS), the Row (RAS), and then return the data to the CPU. Now, 1T means it takes 1 clock cycle to "find" a memory bank, vs. 2T where it takes 2 clock cycles to "find" the memory bank. But there's a sorta quirk, this only happens the first time data is attempted to be fetched from memory, and all subsequent accesses to that chip are done w/o delay, making the command rate null after the initial chip fetch.


picsnip

Understood, I'll stick to a lower voltage to start with, 1.55 then move to 1.60 and possibly 1.65 if I am getting nowhere. Also I'll swap the MC back to 2T for better stability smile.gif.
Thanks for that picture that helps a lot to make sense of what affects what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwamotto Tetsuz View Post

https://www.overclock.net/t/1536669/perfect-ram-timing-rule-posting-resuts-of-using-the-rule-is-appreciated
have a look through my ram timing rule.
If you don't understand how it works take a screen shot of your bios ram timings and I'll give you a few sets of timings to try out

Guys may dissagree
But I think that 1.8Volts is alrright for daily usage even on air.
I reckon that you should use mem test to occupy your ram and run it for an hour and touch your ram to see how hot it is. If it dosen't burn your hand then its good.
I had ran ram at real high voltages like 1.96Volts on air cooling. And I still have those rams today in working condition and seen zero degration.


Thanks I'll definitely check your post out looks useful!

Also here is a screenshot of my BIOS timings, I'm interested to see what you recommended. So I can get an idea of what to work with also.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
https://dl2.pushbulletusercontent.com/ix5LvNTYaS0biRrYMNZwUt7CqfINoHKs/20161011_130803.jpg
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 11:27 AM
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Since you're interested in what does what, here's more info than you probably want:

Refresh Rate (tRFC)

Memory stores ones and zeros as charged and uncharged capacitors,
Billions of them! - a 4 Gig stick has 4.000,000,000 capacitors - arranged in rows and ranks.

A charges capacitor represents a one and an uncharged capacitor equals a zero.
The problem with capacitors is that they slowly loose their charge.
So, periodically memory has to stop whatever it's doing and refresh all the ones and zeros. That takes time.
If it doesn't happen often enough and capacitors loose their charge whatever is stored in memory gets corrupted. (Note, not lost, but corrupted - see below.)
If it happens to often then the memory is wasting time refreshing data when it isn't yet necessary to do so.

When you increase memory voltage you're putting more charge into the charged capacitors, and it takes longer for then to leak down.
To much voltage for to long destroys capacitors.
Refreshing the capacitors more often can be equivalent to increasing voltage. You can run lower voltages at higher speeds with higher refresh rates.

So adjusting tREF can make memory stable and/or increase performance.
But it has to be adjusted just right between to much and not enough time to work the best.

Corruption:
When CAS or many other timings are set to low the memory just stops working, and, usually, the computer just freezes.
So you just reboot, enter the BIOS and change the offending setting.

But, with tREF the memory keeps working, but any data the memory handles gets corrupted.
That most often results in a corrupted OS. The computer becomes a boat anchor until you reinstall - everything.

One easy way to avoid this is to install a second copy of your OS. Your current key will work and you don't need any Windows updates. just a few drivers.
If you use that install to do all your memory tweaking it makes life a lot easier. Once you figure out what you want to do you can set up your memory overclock on your main OS.

Maximum Asynchronous Latency also has a great effect on stability.

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