question about the highest speed kits at XMP, and dual rank vs single rank for cpu/ram bound gaming at 1080p etc.. - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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question about the highest speed kits at XMP, and dual rank vs single rank for cpu/ram bound gaming at 1080p etc..

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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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question about the highest speed kits at XMP, and dual rank vs single rank for cpu/ram bound gaming at 1080p etc..

hello, I was wondering about the highest rated xmp kits, lets say I would buy a 4600-4800mhz c18 kit from g.skill or similar to use on a z390 (or z490 board later this year) ,
how likely is it that these type of kits actually will run 100% stable at XMP profile?

is it true that one would absolutely need a very highend motherboard as well, in the class of EVGA dark and Asus maximus XI gene and so on to even consider these kits?
or would perhaps other lower cost mATX / ITX boards with only 2 dimm slots perhaps also be able to handle the highest rated kits?

how much does the CPU factor in? is it common to run these speeds with a 9700k/9900k without issues as long as the motherboard can handle it, and is there any difference between 9900k and 9700k in that case?

(lets assume we will not overclock the cpu and only focus on getting the RAM to run at fastest possible speed)

I have looked at some QVL lists both from memory vendors and motherboard vendors, but how much can you "trust" those when it comes to the absolute highest speeds so to speak?



and lastly a question which seems hard to get a clear answer on after some research, if you wanted the absolutely highest performance possible in CPU/RAM bottlenecked games (1080p, low quality gfx esports type games for the highest possible framerates, with for example a 2080ti) what is generally the best option out of these do you think?:

A) 2x8gb single rank at super high 4600+ frequency and try to optimize timings a bit (probably cant tweak timings much more at 4600-4800mhz than what the XMP already does perhaps?)
B) 2x16 gb dual rank or 4x4gb single rank running as dual rank, at as high frequency and optimized timings possible/allowed by motherboard/cpu/etc (what is realistic frequency here?)
C) 2x8gb single rank but instead of going for highest frequency, go for ultra low timings at ~4000-4100 mhz? something like 4000mhz cl11-12-12-28-1T and so on?


spent some time today researching dual rank benchmarks and my questions above, but still hard to reach conclusive answer!

it seems obvious that there are great benefits to dual rank with the interleaving, but the drawbacks seem to be lower max frequency and looser timings, so its hard to say where the sweet spot is, and if single rank at super high frequency/tight timings is stronger choice for gaming than dual rank with a bit lower frequency and looser timings and so on and so on :/

if I had to pick something now, it would seem that for gaming at the absolute top end of performance, it would be with ultra low timings at as high possible frequency as possible, looking at something like 4000-4100 mhz cl11-12 basically ?



excuse me if a bit messy post would appreciate any insight and feedback on this!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 07:02 PM
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DDR4-2666 is the official memory speed Intel rated the CPU. Anything over 2666 is considered an OC. You run the risk of the memory controller not being able to achieve those speeds. I would go for low timings around 4000

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 03-31-2020, 07:05 PM
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You are never getting CL11-12 @ 4000mhz. Those are numbers only seen when LN2. If you want maximum CPU performance it is best to go for the best CPU then pair it with min max memory. I am personally aiming for Zen 3 + w/e max frequency the IF will support then tune from there. With respect to Intel every iteration of Skylake has and will only get slower as exploits are found and patched.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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well if we put it like this, if I get either a 3600 mhz cl16-16-16-36 2x16gb dual rank kit, or 4x8gb single rank 4000mhz cl17-17-17-37 kit from gskill (which would run effectively in dual rank since its 4x8gb), should I expect these to at least run at XMP without any issues at all on any z390 board? or is a high-end motherboard needed for this?


because from what I am hearing it seems like as soon as the memory is dual rank either by way of 2x16gb sticks or 4x4/4x8gb sticks then it suddenly becomes much harder to reach high frequencies and decent timings, even at XMP like the above examples, is this true or should I be fine with the above dual rank examples at XMP at least, even without something like a maximus hero/gene etc?


cheers !
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 08:40 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by alexander1986 View Post
well if we put it like this, if I get either a 3600 mhz cl16-16-16-36 2x16gb dual rank kit, or 4x8gb single rank 4000mhz cl17-17-17-37 kit from gskill (which would run effectively in dual rank since its 4x8gb), should I expect these to at least run at XMP without any issues at all on any z390 board? or is a high-end motherboard needed for this?


because from what I am hearing it seems like as soon as the memory is dual rank either by way of 2x16gb sticks or 4x4/4x8gb sticks then it suddenly becomes much harder to reach high frequencies and decent timings, even at XMP like the above examples, is this true or should I be fine with the above dual rank examples at XMP at least, even without something like a maximus hero/gene etc?


cheers !
Thats exactly what I run, 3600 G.Skill XMP II on a z390. Runs just fine at CAS 16

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Avacado View Post
Thats exactly what I run, 3600 G.Skill XMP II on a z390. Runs just fine at CAS 16

nice, thats good to hear at least!
just out of curiosity did you try OC your kit and if so what frequency could you reach stable with lowest timings?
if your motherboard is an asus prime z390 like in your signature I take it its not really the highest end board? so it would seem like good news if any OC is possible, but i'd probably be happy with just XMP anyway..


anyhow, kind of still wondering what would be best performance in games, dual rank 3600mhz cl16-16-16-36 or single rank 4000mhz 17-17-17-37 :S
(and the single rank kit could probably easily be OC'd quite a bit past XMP compared to the dual rank)


because when looking at numbers like these on tomshardware it seems dual rank can greatly outperform single rank even when the single rank is at 1T and the timings are the same:
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 09:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Worldwin View Post
You are never getting CL11-12 @ 4000mhz. Those are numbers only seen when LN2. If you want maximum CPU performance it is best to go for the best CPU then pair it with min max memory. I am personally aiming for Zen 3 + w/e max frequency the IF will support then tune from there. With respect to Intel every iteration of Skylake has and will only get slower as exploits are found and patched.

you don't need LN2 for CL12 4000

https://hwbot.org/submission/3370344...m_4020.2_marks

https://hwbot.org/submission/4287710...m_3887.2_marks

^ 4000 CL12 and 4133 CL12 on ambient cooling ^

you do need to shove more voltage than is safe to run 24/7 into them but you can do it

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
you don't need LN2 for CL12 4000

https://hwbot.org/submission/3370344...m_4020.2_marks

https://hwbot.org/submission/4287710...m_3887.2_marks

^ 4000 CL12 and 4133 CL12 on ambient cooling ^

you do need to shove more voltage than is safe to run 24/7 into them but you can do it


lol, nice!


if I can ask you pook since you seem to know a bit about memory and helped in another thread as well, considering the numbers from tomshardware above on dual rank vs single rank,

if you strictly wanted the best gaming performance in cpu/rambound games (1080p, low quality settings competitive gaming to try and reach 240+ fps or at least 180+ fps and so on)

what would you recommend, dual rank 2x16gb 3600 mhz cl16-16-16-36 or single rank 2x8gb 4000+ mhz cl17, or dual rank 4x8gb 4000mhz+ cl17 (or better timings if possible)


seems hard to get clear cut answer on if 3600 mhz cl16 dual rank would outperform 4000+ mhz single rank, and if it is even feasible to get dual rank to run at all at 4000+ mhz with decent timings,
either via 2 dual rank modules or 4 single rank modules :S
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 10:19 AM
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same answer I gave you in your thread, beating a dead horse really. if your board is daisy chain get 2x16/2x8, if your board is t-topology get whatever you want but ideally not dual rank.

the performance difference between the two is imperceptible, unless all you do is benchmark all day then it makes no difference. throw a dart and pick.

if you're just setting XMP and not OCing or going above ~3600 then it makes no difference what kit you buy, buy whatever has the best timings/price at 3600/3733 and call it a day.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-01-2020, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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alrighty then
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