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Is my RAM bad, or am I doing something wrong?

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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Is my RAM bad, or am I doing something wrong?

I bought 4000Mhz cl15 RAM assuming that I would be able to underclock it to 3733 and get great timings, but so far this hasn't been the case at all. (was this a wrong assumption?) First I tried to run the memory at the XMP profile settings of 4000 15 16 16 and I started getting errors at 2500% on RAM test. Shouldn't memory be guaranteed to run the XMP profile since it's advertised as that speed RAM? Then I tried lowering it to 3733 and couldn't get stable after many attempts at cl14 and going up from there.
Eventually trying the XMP profile settings but changing the speed from 4000 to 3733 and that wouldn't even run without errors.

I was doing some reading, and noticed it said in several places that RAM would probably start giving errors above 40c, and above 50c you would definitely be getting errors. I had noticed at least high 40s when I had been testing different speeds and thought maybe that was the problem why I oculdn't find any stability. So I reset to BIOS defaults which put the RAM at 1.2v and 2133(I think?)Mhz. And ran a RAM test at those speeds. I even took off the side and front panel of the case to allow more air flow. After 20 minutes the RAM was already at 43c. That seems hot according to what I'd read but I've never tried Ocing RAM, so don't really know how much of this is normal or not.

System specs:

3950x
MSI x570 creation
Gskill Trident Royal 4000/c15
eVGA 2080ti
O11 XL case

Custom loop for GPU/CPU
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 07:46 PM
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50c isn't going to cause problems at XMP, and even if you're shoving a ton of voltage through your RAM and you're on the knife's edge of stability running super tight timings it's unlikely to even then have issues at 40c. Like most things, lower is better but that's really unlikely to be the reason for your issues.

Enter your timings and voltages manually and ignore XMP. What happens? There's a Ryzen DRAM Calculator tool to take the guess work out of it if you're unfamiliar with timings.

Your question about RAM should "just work because XMP" isn't really a valid point, is your RAM on your motherboard's QVL or is your motherboard on your RAM's QVL? I have a feeling the answer is probably no, since Ryzen drops down to 2:1 above 3733 and there's little real world reason to go above that and you have a 4000 kit.

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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 07:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Seventyseventy View Post
I bought 4000Mhz cl15 RAM assuming that I would be able to underclock it to 3733 and get great timings, but so far this hasn't been the case at all. (was this a wrong assumption?) First I tried to run the memory at the XMP profile settings of 4000 15 16 16 and I started getting errors at 2500% on RAM test. Shouldn't memory be guaranteed to run the XMP profile since it's advertised as that speed RAM? Then I tried lowering it to 3733 and couldn't get stable after many attempts at cl14 and going up from there.
Eventually trying the XMP profile settings but changing the speed from 4000 to 3733 and that wouldn't even run without errors.

I was doing some reading, and noticed it said in several places that RAM would probably start giving errors above 40c, and above 50c you would definitely be getting errors. I had noticed at least high 40s when I had been testing different speeds and thought maybe that was the problem why I oculdn't find any stability. So I reset to BIOS defaults which put the RAM at 1.2v and 2133(I think?)Mhz. And ran a RAM test at those speeds. I even took off the side and front panel of the case to allow more air flow. After 20 minutes the RAM was already at 43c. That seems hot according to what I'd read but I've never tried Ocing RAM, so don't really know how much of this is normal or not.

System specs:

3950x
MSI x570 creation
Gskill Trident Royal 4000/c15
eVGA 2080ti
O11 XL case

Custom loop for GPU/CPU

Your CPU's memory controller also plays a role in achieving certain RAM speeds, not just the RAM itself (btw, I assume RAM voltage in bios adjusted to at least 1.35v). AFAIK, the 3950x has an ideal RAM speed of 3600 MHz (2x Infinity Fabric/IF) - that is the sweet-spot, and worth working towards with the tightest possible timings. That said, it should run 3733, especially if you oc the IF accordingly.

RAM oc_ing can be an extremely frustrating chase down a rabbit hole...but this tool here for Ryzen should definitely come in handy for you...
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
50c isn't going to cause problems at XMP, and even if you're shoving a ton of voltage through your RAM and you're on the knife's edge of stability running super tight timings it's unlikely to even then have issues at 40c. Like most things, lower is better but that's really unlikely to be the reason for your issues.

Enter your timings and voltages manually and ignore XMP. What happens? There's a Ryzen DRAM Calculator tool to take the guess work out of it if you're unfamiliar with timings.

Your question about RAM should "just work because XMP" isn't really a valid point, is your RAM on your motherboard's QVL or is your motherboard on your RAM's QVL? I have a feeling the answer is probably no, since Ryzen drops down to 2:1 above 3733 and there's little real world reason to go above that and you have a 4000 kit.
Thanks for the response. I don't know what qualifies as a ton of voltage, but the XMP profile has it at 1.516v, and that the highest I pushed it in any of my testing.

I had download Ryzen DRAM calculator, and tried both the "fast" and "safe" configurations for 3733mhz, both of which failed. I also tried losing the timings I got from there, but was not able to find any that would not produce errors when stability tested.

Yes, the RAM is on my motherboard's QVL list.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Your CPU's memory controller also plays a role in achieving certain RAM speeds, not just the RAM itself (btw, I assume RAM voltage in bios adjusted to at least 1.35v). AFAIK, the 3950x has an ideal RAM speed of 3600 MHz (2x Infinity Fabric/IF) - that is the sweet-spot, and worth working towards with the tightest possible timings. That said, it should run 3733, especially if you oc the IF accordingly.

RAM oc_ing can be an extremely frustrating chase down a rabbit hole...but this tool here for Ryzen should definitely come in handy for you...

Yes, the IF was clocked at 1867. Voltage on the XMP profile was 1.516v so I tried voltages between 1.4 and 1.52 while I was testing different timings.

Yes, I had been using that tool while I was trying to find stable timings for 3733mhz, but both "fast" and safe" configurations failed, as well as when I used those configs but loosened the timings.

Thanks for the response.
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:36 PM
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Can your CPU do 1900MHz FCLK? If yes, you want to hit 3800 MT/s on the memory and then start to tighten things down.

If not, 3733 MT/s is your new best friend.

Your kit is one of the best (if not the best) on the market. You should have no problem getting some nice&tight timings but it's going to be tough at first if you're a mem OC beginner.

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Last edited by rares495; 06-27-2020 at 11:40 PM.
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:44 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Your CPU's memory controller also plays a role in achieving certain RAM speeds, not just the RAM itself (btw, I assume RAM voltage in bios adjusted to at least 1.35v). AFAIK, the 3950x has an ideal RAM speed of 3600 MHz (2x Infinity Fabric/IF) - that is the sweet-spot, and worth working towards with the tightest possible timings. That said, it should run 3733, especially if you oc the IF accordingly.

RAM oc_ing can be an extremely frustrating chase down a rabbit hole...but this tool here for Ryzen should definitely come in handy for you...
The memory controller is not an issue anymore. Zen 2's IMC is on par with Shintel.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4266411...sdram_3018_mhz

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by rares495 View Post
Can your CPU do 1900MHz FCLK? If yes, you want to hit 3800 MT/s on the memory and then start to tighten things down.

If not, 3733 MT/s is your new best friend.

Your kit is one of the best (if not the best) on the market. You should have no problem getting some nice&tight timings but it's going to be tough at first if you're a mem OC beginner.

It did 1867 no problem, 1900 I believe it didn't post, but I am a complete noob with CPU Ocing as well, and have not tried anything yet to see if it could get to 1900.

As far as being tough at first, that's fine. I have no problem plugging away at it, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time, either doing something obviously incorrect or wasting my time on a bad set of RAM. The fact that I haven't been able to get one stability test without errors other than 2133, 12v was just a bit discouraging.

Thanks for the response.
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-27-2020, 11:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Seventyseventy View Post
It did 1867 no problem, 1900 I believe it didn't post, but I am a complete noob with CPU Ocing as well, and have not tried anything yet to see if it could get to 1900.

As far as being tough at first, that's fine. I have no problem plugging away at it, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time, either doing something obviously incorrect or wasting my time on a bad set of RAM. The fact that I haven't been able to get one stability test without errors other than 2133, 12v was just a bit discouraging.

Thanks for the response.
You can try 3733 with my timings @ 1.5V or 1.52V for starters. They are extremely tight but your kit is better than mine so there shouldn't be any issue.

Also, do you know what thaiphoon burner is?
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 06-28-2020, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by rares495 View Post
You can try 3733 with my timings @ 1.5V or 1.52V for starters. They are extremely tight but your kit is better than mine so there shouldn't be any issue.

Also, do you know what thaiphoon burner is?
Thanks! I would try them right now, but my wife would kill me clacking away on the mechanical. Will give them a go in the morning though.


Yes, I used it a little bit yesterday.

What is the max voltage you would go up to?

Also, I notice it has 1T selected, and GDM disabled. In my BIOS (MSI), if you click 1T, GDM automatically gets set to auto and is greyed out. Any idea if you can override that to manually disable it, or when it's greyed out, does the 1T just take precedence and it's essentially disabled?

Last edited by Seventyseventy; 06-28-2020 at 12:07 AM.
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