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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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New Build for learning along way

EDITED: my recent choices below:

- Phanteks Eclipse P600S PH-EC600PSTG_AG01 Antracite Gray Steel / Tempered Glass ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
-ASRock X570 CREATOR AM4 AMD X570 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard
-AMD RYZEN 9 3900X 12-Core 3.8 GHz (4.6 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 105W 100-100000023BOX Desktop Processor
- Crucial Technology Ballistix 64GB (32GBx2) DDR4 3600 MT/s UDIMM Desktop Gaming Memory Module Kit
-Seasonic PRIME PX-750, 750W 80+ Platinum, Full Modular, Fan Control in Fanless, Silent, and Cooling Mode
- SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS 2TB Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V7S2T0B/AM

Original post below.

I have built systems twice but I just want to take it easy this time and buy things one at a time so the fun lasts longer.

I consider myself having very basic computer knowledge and since the process will probably spread into few months period I want to learn as much as I can and I know there is a LOT to learn.
That is one reason I wanted to make sure I can ask along the way.

I am building my system for Flight Simulator (X-Plane and possibly MSFS 2020 when it comes out), Blender 3D modeling, some video editing and whatever I am interested in.

Here is the plan so far, main components, I will decide on other things later on.

– Phanteks Eclipse P600S PH-EC600PSTG_AG01 Antracite Gray Steel / Tempered Glass ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

-ASUS Prime Z390-A Motherboard LGA1151 (Intel 8th and 9th Gen) ATX DDR4 DP HDMI M.2 USB 3.1 Gen2 Gigabit LAN

-Intel Core i9-9900 Coffee Lake 8-Core, 16-Thread, 3.1 GHz (5.0 GHz Turbo) LGA 1151 (300 Series) 65W BX80684I99900 Desktop Processor Intel UHD Graphics 630

-CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 64GB (4 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model CMK64GX4M4B3200C16

-Seasonic PRIME PX-1000, 1000W 80+ Platinum, Full Modular, Fan Control in Fanless, Silent, and Cooling Mode, 12 Year Warranty, Perfect Power Supply for Gaming and High-Performance Systems, SSR-1000PD.

-EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER BLACK GAMING, 08G-P4-3081-KR, 8GB GDDR6

OR – EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti DirectX 12 11G-P4-2281-KR 11GB 352-Bit GDDR6 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support BLACK EDITION GAMING Video Card, Dual HDB Fans & RGB LED

Any comments or suggestions?

Cheers, AJ

Last edited by arb65912; 02-29-2020 at 05:45 AM.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 04:26 PM
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unless you need QuickSync you shouldn't even be considering Intel, and if you're not OCing (since you said 9900 and not 9900K) then you definitely shouldn't be. Grab a 3700X or a 3800X.

you don't need a 1000W, you don't even need 750W. 1000W won't hurt but it's money spent for nothing, really.

not sure how buying bit by bit is going to make things more fun, it's mostly going to make you (possibly) miss deals and cost you more money if anything, and you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot if one of your parts happens to be DOA and you don't know until you build x months later.

Intel i9 9900K Coffee Lake @ X8 5309mhz (+47.5%)
AMD FX-8320 Vishera @ X4 5022mhz (+43.5%)
Intel i5 4690K Haswell @ X4 5013mhz (+43.2%)
AMD X4 960T Zosma @ X6 4870mhz (+62.3%)
Intel i7 6700 Skylake @ X4 4709mhz (+38.5%)
Intel i5 6400 Skylake @ X4 4588mhz (+69.9%)
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
I have built systems twice but I just want to take it easy this time and buy things one at a time so the fun lasts longer.

I consider myself having very basic computer knowledge and since the process will probably spread into few months period I want to learn as much as I can and I know there is a LOT to learn.
That is one reason I wanted to make sure I can ask along the way.

I am building my system for Flight Simulator (X-Plane and possibly MSFS 2020 when it comes out), Blender 3D modeling, some video editing and whatever I am interested in.

Spoiler!


Cheers, AJ

Hi AJ -

Your comment 'I am building my system for Flight Simulator (X-Plane and possibly MSFS 2020 when it comes out), Blender 3D modeling, some video editing and whatever I am interested in ' is really what caught my eye ' You don't always see folks state even a few specific applications their new system is supposed to perform, though that's a really good way to proceed. The Intel 9900K/K* is still a great and top choice. Just be aware that the 10900K is just around the corner, along with an updated Z490 chipset for it, and the option to go up to a 10c/20t at what looks like another 'Intel official' 200MHz or so. At the very least, if you decide to stick w/ the 9900K/K* series and Z390, just make sure to get a good $ bargain. I am also wondering if you have considered AMD. I only turned to AMD (TR HEDT) myself last year for the first time, but couldn't be happier. I certainly do not consider myself a fan boy for either Intel or AMD (as I run both). Yet the AMD 'Zen2' 3900X (12c/24t) and 3950X (16c/32t) are making a huge impact in the marketplace now, and with apps like Blender would probably serve you just as well if not better. A good and value-driven mobo for those would be the MSI X570 'Unify'...no RGB, but great VRM and features.

On the GPU front, I can only say that personally, I prefer the 2080 Ti (I run two of them in NVLink, partially for work such as machine learning). But a 2080 Super will not ruin your day, either, yet the 2080 Tis are the undisputed heavyweights right now with work and play performance benchmarks to prove it. That said, next-gen GPUs from NVidia ("Ampere') are not far off, so as with the CPU suggestion(s) above, it puts you in a good bargaining position re. price.

Everything else I saw on your list (ie. case, PSU etc) look great, but unless I missed it, I did not see anything about cooling CPU and GPU. Whether Intel, AMD or NVidia, these days getting top performance (for consumers) involves water-cooling, more likely than not. This has to do with new driver algorithms that use temps as one of the determinants. Once you start looking at water-cooling, the next question becomes AIO for closed loop (usually but not always for only one component such as CPU OR GPU)...or custom (sky is the limit) water-cooling setups. Whether Intel 9900K or AMD 3900X / 3950X, whether 2080 Super or ESPECIALLY 2080 Ti, water-cooling will definitely help to get the most out of your soon-to-be-new-build...

Last edited by J7SC; 02-24-2020 at 05:30 PM.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
unless you need QuickSync you shouldn't even be considering Intel, and if you're not OCing (since you said 9900 and not 9900K) then you definitely shouldn't be. Grab a 3700X or a 3800X.

you don't need a 1000W, you don't even need 750W. 1000W won't hurt but it's money spent for nothing, really.

not sure how buying bit by bit is going to make things more fun, it's mostly going to make you (possibly) miss deals and cost you more money if anything, and you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot if one of your parts happens to be DOA and you don't know until you build x months later.
- Thanks for the feedback, I can tell that setup is just a personal preference for most part.

- I have meant 9900K but I do not necessary plan on heavy OCing, maybe a tiny bit.

- What is the advantage of 3700X or 3800X over 9900K? I am not arguing but asking as a newbie here. :-)

- I know that 1000W is overkill but I also read ( do not remember now where) that PSU works more efficiently under less load, I might be totally wrong so please explain if I am.

-About spreading buying and building process, it is a personal preference, I can buy all components and put it all together in one evening but that is NOT FUN for me.
In the past I did just that, put it together super fast, asked, edited my setup and done.
For me FUN is also talking here, exchange ideas and see other people's preferences, read some info on a particular components, discuss , ask questions etc.
That is why I want to make fun last longer by deliberately slowing down.... you got the idea.

- If anything comes DOA, i will replace it, simple.

Thanks for the feedback as any one is important for me even if if preferes different things.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 06:12 PM
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Intel has the faster core speed - think of it as raw power
AMD has the better IPC - does more during a single cycle

For single or lightly threaded apps (primarily games), core speed is the primary metric so Intel has the advantage.
For heavily threaded apps or multitasking, IPC and core count are the primary metrics. Both chips are 8c 16t (a wash), so AMD has the advantage due to higher IPC.

Budget is something else to consider. As of right now, a 9900k goes for about $530, and a 3800x goes for around $330. Higher end x570 boards are more expensive than similarly configured z390 boards, so that eats into the money saved from the 3800x cpu. With that said, you could buy a high end ($300ish) x570 board and a 3800x for less than a $200 z390 board and a 9900k and still save some money. Ram can be cheaper as well, since you are basically limited to 3600-3800Mhz on the AMD system unless you want the headaches of unsynced mode.

My opinion - I'd go for the 3800x and a decent x570 mobo. Spend the money you save from this combo on the highest rated GPU you can justify, or 3600Mhz RAM with the lowest CAS latency (15 or lower if you can find it). I used to recommend the 3700x over the 3800x because the price difference between the 2 wasn't justified by the performance gap. Now that AMD has lowered the 3800x to a much more realistic amount, it's harder to make that recommendation.

Even ignoring a future drop in CPU upgrade, the IPC gains from this generation along with the high core count will allow this build to last for a good long while.

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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 06:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
- Thanks for the feedback, I can tell that setup is just a personal preference for most part.

- I have meant 9900K but I do not necessary plan on heavy OCing, maybe a tiny bit.

- What is the advantage of 3700X or 3800X over 9900K? I am not arguing but asking as a newbie here. :-)

- I know that 1000W is overkill but I also read ( do not remember now where) that PSU works more efficiently under less load, I might be totally wrong so please explain if I am.

-About spreading buying and building process, it is a personal preference, I can buy all components and put it all together in one evening but that is NOT FUN for me.
In the past I did just that, put it together super fast, asked, edited my setup and done.
For me FUN is also talking here, exchange ideas and see other people's preferences, read some info on a particular components, discuss , ask questions etc.
That is why I want to make fun last longer by deliberately slowing down.... you got the idea.

- If anything comes DOA, i will replace it, simple.

Thanks for the feedback as any one is important for me even if if preferes different things.

the 80+ rating tells you where the PSU is more efficient, but you'd never recoup the x dollars more you spent on a 1000W PSU over a 700W in electricity savings. You'd be looking at a couple pennies a month in savings at best.



if you've got the $$$ there's certainty worse ways to spend your money though

Reason for saying you should go with a 3700X or a 3800X is because they're cheaper and they're on par with a 9900K in most things, or the difference between them and a 9900K is so little that it makes no difference.

there's situations where they're marginally worse (BFV) and there's situations where they're marginally better (CS:GO) but it's not worth the Intel tax unless all the games you play perform significantly better on team blue (which is rare and unlikely).

If I was building a system today I'd be buying a 3950X or short of that I'd be grabbing a 3800X.

Intel i9 9900K Coffee Lake @ X8 5309mhz (+47.5%)
AMD FX-8320 Vishera @ X4 5022mhz (+43.5%)
Intel i5 4690K Haswell @ X4 5013mhz (+43.2%)
AMD X4 960T Zosma @ X6 4870mhz (+62.3%)
Intel i7 6700 Skylake @ X4 4709mhz (+38.5%)
Intel i5 6400 Skylake @ X4 4588mhz (+69.9%)
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
Hi AJ -

Your comment 'I am building my system for Flight Simulator (X-Plane and possibly MSFS 2020 when it comes out), Blender 3D modeling, some video editing and whatever I am interested in ' is really what caught my eye ' You don't always see folks state even a few specific applications their new system is supposed to perform, though that's a really good way to proceed. The Intel 9900K/K* is still a great and top choice. Just be aware that the 10900K is just around the corner, along with an updated Z490 chipset for it, and the option to go up to a 10c/20t at what looks like another 'Intel official' 200MHz or so. At the very least, if you decide to stick w/ the 9900K/K* series and Z390, just make sure to get a good $ bargain. I am also wondering if you have considered AMD. I only turned to AMD (TR HEDT) myself last year for the first time, but couldn't be happier. I certainly do not consider myself a fan boy for either Intel or AMD (as I run both). Yet the AMD 'Zen2' 3900X (12c/24t) and 3950X (16c/32t) are making a huge impact in the marketplace now, and with apps like Blender would probably serve you just as well if not better. A good and value-driven mobo for those would be the MSI X570 'Unify'...no RGB, but great VRM and features.

On the GPU front, I can only say that personally, I prefer the 2080 Ti (I run two of them in NVLink, partially for work such as machine learning). But a 2080 Super will not ruin your day, either, yet the 2080 Tis are the undisputed heavyweights right now with work and play performance benchmarks to prove it. That said, next-gen GPUs from NVidia ("Ampere') are not far off, so as with the CPU suggestion(s) above, it puts you in a good bargaining position re. price.

Everything else I saw on your list (ie. case, PSU etc) look great, but unless I missed it, I did not see anything about cooling CPU and GPU. Whether Intel, AMD or NVidia, these days getting top performance (for consumers) involves water-cooling, more likely than not. This has to do with new driver algorithms that use temps as one of the determinants. Once you start looking at water-cooling, the next question becomes AIO for closed loop (usually but not always for only one component such as CPU OR GPU)...or custom (sky is the limit) water-cooling setups. Whether Intel 9900K or AMD 3900X / 3950X, whether 2080 Super or ESPECIALLY 2080 Ti, water-cooling will definitely help to get the most out of your soon-to-be-new-build...
Hi J7Sc and thank you for a great reply and comments.

Yes, I thought it would be a good idea to explain what my system is meant to do because gaming systems might have several components in common to get the best results, no doubt about it but X-Plane specifically is transitioning now to Vulcan/Metal and despite searching online on the subject I still can not figure out if it is better to go with Ryzen or Intel.
I only wish I knew the specifics behind the simulator embedded in code what type of processor would be the best for flying in X-Plane.
I also mentioned MSFS2020 because as they advertise it is coming sooner or later in 2020 and everybody knows it will need a good muscle computer but same as with X-Plane I do not know what way is better (Ryzen/Intel)

Please tell me where I can read more about coming up 10900K and Z490, how long are talking about for them to come out?
Since you know from my post I am not in a hurry and I want to just learn and have fun, if the "corner" means 2 months I would probably wait.... you know, it is a hard choice, you want it now but you also know that you could get it better if you wait.
On the other hand if you get the best possible now or 5 months from now, after another 5 months there will be things around corner as well....so I just will read all and think, never hurts. :-)

AMD versus Inter, I will not try to start a war as I expect it has been done probably many times here...
I did my two previous builds with Intel, I like it... AMD, I do not know it.
Second, I have read some reports that X-Plane had some kind of problems with AMD, will need to research more for sure.
I am not absolutely set on Intel, I just like it ...lol,lol,lol.
On the other hand if you would like to comment a bit more why you were so pleased switching, I would sure appreciate it.

GPU... yes, I know there are many choices and my head almost hurts trying to figure out which one.
I know that for X-Plane running two GPUs will not work, it is already asked and proven.
Could you tell me a bit more about NVLink setup and what advantages are you getting from it?

Cooling, I left it for later, did not decide yet.
Definitely closed water cooling for CPU as I know how to install it. :-)

As far as cooling GPU, that one is new, I thought that built in fans are enough considering I am not going crazy OCing....
Please tell me about GPU additional cooling.

Custom water cooling systems ... is a black magic for me at the moment... where do I read about it?

OK, I better stop writing not to make you bored, thank you again for the reply, greatly appreciated.

Cheers, AJ
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
Hi (...) thank you again for the reply, greatly appreciated.

Cheers, AJ

...certainly not the be all / end all, but it's a start...

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14941...-kf-processors

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel/comet...ce-specs-price

https://www.techradar.com/news/intel...th-51ghz-boost
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-24-2020, 06:48 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
Hi J7Sc and thank you for a great reply and comments.

Yes, I thought it would be a good idea to explain what my system is meant to do because gaming systems might have several components in common to get the best results, no doubt about it but X-Plane specifically is transitioning now to Vulcan/Metal and despite searching online on the subject I still can not figure out if it is better to go with Ryzen or Intel.
I only wish I knew the specifics behind the simulator embedded in code what type of processor would be the best for flying in X-Plane.
I also mentioned MSFS2020 because as they advertise it is coming sooner or later in 2020 and everybody knows it will need a good muscle computer but same as with X-Plane I do not know what way is better (Ryzen/Intel)
The new AMD chips have basically closed the gap Intel had over them. AMD is still slower on some tasks (single thread or light thread and tasks where clock speed is the most important metric). Intel is slower on heavy threaded tasks and multitasking. Depending on what you do, this can be either an AMD win, an Intel win, or a wash. AMD CPUs don't have the same driver issues that the GPUs are having, but there are other things to keep in mind - such as the limited OC options on the AMD side.

Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
Please tell me where I can read more about coming up 10900K and Z490, how long are talking about for them to come out?
Since you know from my post I am not in a hurry and I want to just learn and have fun, if the "corner" means 2 months I would probably wait.... you know, it is a hard choice, you want it now but you also know that you could get it better if you wait.
On the other hand if you get the best possible now or 5 months from now, after another 5 months there will be things around corner as well....so I just will read all and think, never hurts. :-)
The waiting game never ends. There will ALWAYS be something new, bigger, better, and faster around the corner. If you need to upgrade, do it. If you can wait, wait.

Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
AMD versus Inter, I will not try to start a war as I expect it has been done probably many times here...
I did my two previous builds with Intel, I like it... AMD, I do not know it.
Second, I have read some reports that X-Plane had some kind of problems with AMD, will need to research more for sure.
I am not absolutely set on Intel, I just like it ...lol,lol,lol.
On the other hand if you would like to comment a bit more why you were so pleased switching, I would sure appreciate it.
There's nothing wrong with favoring one over the other. Just be aware that things have changed recently, and Intel does not have all the same advantages they held for the past 10 years or so.

Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
GPU... yes, I know there are many choices and my head almost hurts trying to figure out which one.
I know that for X-Plane running two GPUs will not work, it is already asked and proven.
Could you tell me a bit more about NVLink setup and what advantages are you getting from it?
I haven't ran a multi GPU setup in a long while, so I couldn't tell you what's changed there other than most people don't recommend it anymore. I can tell you that AMD GPUs have come a long way, but they still have driver issues and the best AMD GPU available now doesn't compete with Nvidia's high end.

Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
Cooling, I left it for later, did not decide yet.
Definitely closed water cooling for CPU as I know how to install it. :-)

As far as cooling GPU, that one is new, I thought that built in fans are enough considering I am not going crazy OCing....
Please tell me about GPU additional cooling.

Custom water cooling systems ... is a black magic for me at the moment... where do I read about it?
I'll probably catch a lot of flak for this, but I'd recommend at least looking into an open loop kit. EK, Swiftech, Corsair, and Thermaltake all sell them. They are complete kits, with everything matched. All you have to do is bolt in the components, connect the plumbing, and fill them up. The "true" water cooler guys will give you a hard time over them, since they are sub optimal and somewhat overpriced, but they're great if you just want to get everything in 1 box instead of comparing specs on multiple parts and shopping all over the planet for a place that actually has what you want in stock.

Quote: Originally Posted by arb65912 View Post
OK, I better stop writing not to make you bored, thank you again for the reply, greatly appreciated.

Cheers, AJ
I know your post wasn't directed to me, but maybe some of my info will help you decide. GL

Black Feathers
(22 items)
CPU
AMD Ryzen 7 3700x
Motherboard
Gigabyte x570 Aorus Pro Wifi
GPU
Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT
RAM
Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4 3600
Hard Drive
Sabrent Rocket NVMe PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280
Hard Drive
Sabrent Rocket NVMe PCIe M.2 2280
Power Supply
Seasonic FOCUS Plus 750
Cooling
EK-KIT Classic RGB P360
Cooling
EK-Vector Radeon RX 5700 +XT RGB - Nickel + Plexi
Cooling
Arctic P12 PWM PST
Cooling
DEEPCOOL RF120M
Cooling
XSPC G1/4" Inline 10k Sensor, Chrome
Cooling
EK-CryoFuel Solid Cloud White (Premix 1000mL)
Case
Lian-Li PC O11 Dynamic (white)
Operating System
Windows 10 Pro
Monitor
Viotek GFT27DB
Monitor
BenQ GL2760H
Keyboard
Logitech G213
Mouse
Logitech G502 Hero
Mousepad
Enhance GX-MP6
Audio
Audio Technica ATH-M50x
Audio
Logitech Z333
CPU
Intel Core i7 4710HQ
GPU
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970M
RAM
16GB DDR3L
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 EVO
Hard Drive
HGST Travelstar 7K100
Operating System
Windows 10
Monitor
BenQ XL2720T
Keyboard
Microsoft Sidewinder X4
Mouse
Gigabyte M8000X
Mouse
Steelseries
Audio
Audio-technica ATHM40x
Audio
MTX iX1 Headphones
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Mr. Mojo is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Gentlemen, thank you very much for your replies!!!! I really appreciate it and just love exploring things based on your advice.

It is a lot of info for me to "digest" so I am going to read carefully all responses and definitely reply here but I am sure with more questions if you do not mind....

THree major things happened after reading your replies:

1. I am convinced that I do not need 1000W PSU, I will get 750W one.

2. Intel versus Ryzen... that is a hard one, I would go for Ryzen but I need to find out if there are any limitations of ot as far as flight simulator X-Plane goes.

3. I know now that waiting few months could get me much better components or the same ones for a lower price and that decision will be really hard to make.
I know that new generation Nvidia GPU is coming out probably by June as well as new Intel and Ryzen series CPUs.....
Please help me decide... I know it is always a dilemma as new things keep popping out and there is not end of it...

Thank you again for sharing your experience and knowledge with me.

Cheers, AJ

Last edited by arb65912; 02-25-2020 at 09:38 AM.
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