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[MD] AMD: FX will come back within two years

 
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post #401 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 06:36 PM
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The mobile Kaveri runs at 3,6 turbo scores a 0,9 in CB 11.5 my 2670QM 2,9GHz turbo (it has a 31x multi on one core but didn't go there) my i7 scores a 1.07.

1.07 is extremely low, sandy bridge qm's are way worse performing than haswell mq's

I don't believe in "good enough"~!!

240hz / gsync / low persistence is AWESOME

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post #402 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 07:00 PM
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The FX-83XX series are not bad gaming chips, my rig runs most games silky smooth even Crysis 3. If you just want to game at 1080p, a fx-8320 and r9-280/gtx 770 will be more than enough for today's AAA " next gen " console ports. The biggest issue with these CPU's is the heat, that I can live without. That being said I will probably get an fx-9590 later this year, I am sure my CPU is well above 220w already so who cares.
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post #403 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 08:49 PM
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By the time these next-gen FX's come out GlobalFoundries' 14-nm Multi-fin SOI FinFETs will be out.

http://www.deepdyve.com/lp/institute-of-electrical-and-electronics-engineers/comprehensive-study-of-effective-current-variability-and-mosfet-N02OvGV17a

--
Of course, it is based on something from IBM's Advanced R&D.

http://ieee-ipfa.org/IPFA2014-FinalProgram.pdf

TUTORIAL 5: Static Random Access Memory Failure Analysis
SPEAKER: Dr. Zhigang Song, IBM, USA
Quote:
Zhigang Song received his Bachelor of Science from Fundan University, China, 1988, Master of
Engineering from Beijing Institute of Chemical technology, China, 1990, and Ph. D degree from
National University of Singapore, 1998. He started failure analysis career in AMD, Singapore as a
device analysis engineer in 1997. In 1999, he moved to Chartered Semiconductor Manufacturing
Limited, where he had held senior engineer, principal engineer, senior principal engineer and
member of technical staff positions in failure analysis lab. In 2007, he joined Semiconductor
Research and Development Center (SRDC) of IBM as a senior engineer in PFA Lab. Since then,
he had led failure analysis team to support 45nm, 32nm, 28nm and 20nm bulk technology development and also been
responsible for failure analysis of logic failures (scan chain and ATPG) for 32nm and 22nm SOI technology
development. Currently, he is involved in failure analysis for 14nm SOI FinFET technology development. He has
authored or coauthored more than 50 papers published in Journals and Conferences, included ISTFA and IPFA.

http://de.linkedin.com/pub/ahmed-said-abdou/67/8b2/b2b
Quote:
principle DRC QA engineer at GLOBALFOUNDRIES.

Semiconductor Experience:

DRC development of 14nm SOI technology node for major semiconductor
manufacturer in the USA.

DRC development of 32nm SOI technology node for major semiconductor
manufacturer in the USA.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/qi-zhang/19/379/310
Quote:
Principal Technology Development Engineer
GLOBALFOUNDRIES

Was working on:
...
Gate First & Replacement Metal Gate development for 14nm SOI

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post #404 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clairvoyant129 View Post

This is as best you're going to get in terms of real world gaming benchmark. What a mess for the top of the line FX CPU.

Except the 8350 isn't the top of the line one... only you know a 700mhz (and 800mhz turbo) clock difference between the 8350 and the 9590...

And seriously, the best your going to get in real world performance? Stop, my chest hurts from the jokes

On a related topic, I've been on the AM3+ platform since bulldozer and it's lived it's life and is long in the tooth. Considering the 8350 launched just shy of 2 years ago (oct 2012 IIRC) I'd say it's held it's own just fine at the price point.

After Haswell launched though, it's hard to recommend it even for strictly multithreaded workloads unless you are are looking for a quick upgrade and are already on a decent am3+ board. The 4670k (well 4690 now) is really the best all around performer out there at this time

Though I'd have to say the best bang for buck for old and new games would be a Xeon E3-1230V3 ... yea, you can't overclock it (much) but it's still a 4c8t I7 equivalent with extra features, runs cooler and most importantly is what, 10 bucks more then the 4c4t 4670?


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post #405 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by _GTech View Post

Y'all can say what you want about AMD, I wouldn't touch em with your desktop, and not to slight the company, but the last marketing stunt they pulled left a bad taste in my mouth...

It'll do 11 they said.... (right...)

It (BD) was the biggest fail & they know it, they should really just quit while they are ahead, seriously....

If and that's a might big word, if they can some how pull a miracle out of their ass and bridge the performance gap that is so huge now, that might draw million back to them, but don't hold your breath on that one...

I'm not going to sit around and even bother talking about AMD anymore, either they deliver the performance gains over Intel or just STAY HOME!!! (Fails!)

(You just don't come to the park against the pros with a minor league team, really!)

I still remember some of your posts BEFORE Bulldozer launched. wink.gif

You were one of the biggest believers.



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post #406 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 12Cores View Post

The FX-83XX series are not bad gaming chips, my rig runs most games silky smooth even Crysis 3. If you just want to game at 1080p, a fx-8320 and r9-280/gtx 770 will be more than enough for today's AAA " next gen " console ports. The biggest issue with these CPU's is the heat, that I can live without. That being said I will probably get an fx-9590 later this year, I am sure my CPU is well above 220w already so who cares.

This right here.


My, and most other people's, FX8320/FX8350's are fine. A blast to Overclock even (Certainly more agreeable than this Haswell Chip I've been torturing myself trying to stabilize a decent Clock on for the last two weekends), simple to set up, and a beast as far as certain loads go.

The problem with these chips ultimately is that they are not "3-4 years as the only flagship offering fine." Which is a problem made even more frustrating and incomprehensible when you realize that any decent revision being made to this architecture which would/could offer a significant increase in IPC and competitiveness is now relegated to the lowend/midrange market. Counting improvements from Steamroller, Excavator is technically going to be at least a 30-40% improvement in IPC over Piledriver.

Unfortunately, most of us will never actually know the specific's of that benefit, because like the aforementioned Steamroller, AMD does not want to push those improvements into the enthusiast market.

It's been a sad state of affairs for both companies over the last few years honestly in my opinion.

Intel, the undisputed leader in this market, carrying nearly unlimited R&D resources and tons of money to throw around, have decided that annual updates bringing the enthusiasts less than 5% performance increases across the board is the way to go. That mindset is pretty awful for us without any threat of competition emerging nowadays.

AMD, the undisputed unleader, has decided they are okay with this as well, since they are sitting this whole cycle out. The fact that they would rather not have to put much effort into revising their flawed architecture for the highend seems to mean to me that "Hey if they aren't good enough none of these enthusiasts and system builders really care, since they ain't using these APU's." In their mind, they may as well just sit on Piledriver for the rest of this year into next while waiting for Jim Keller's team to pull a miracle architecture out of their hat.

Now certainly some of you would argue that sitting the rest of Bulldozer out and waiting for a new architecture to save the day is the smartest decision AMD has made in years. While I can see why you'd think that, I disagree wholeheartedly. I think a 6-8 core Steamroller/Excavator with even the most conservative of those IPC improvement's being realized, would have given AMD a chance to keep a lot more of it's fan base through out this time. Heck, the revisions, alongside their newly found "We own the Consoles's" clout, might even allow them to pick up a few Multithreaded benchmark and performance wins.

Or at the very least, they could have used these highend revisions to help them push a new highend chipset into consumer's hands ASAP. If for no other reason then to increase the chance that they get a positive response to Skybridge and beyond when these chips finally drop, by having the largest socket user base they could have possibly obtained beforehand.

It is in that regard especially where I really think they missed the boat.

But nonetheless, the next two years are going to be a super interesting time for both companies...

- Can/will Intel bother to push a true, unique, and innovative revision of their architecture at some point?-

- Can/will AMD catch up in IPC with a guru like Jim Keller given essentially free reign in how he develop's their next two architectures?-

-Will either company make an impact with an ARM chipset?-

-Is AMD going to be right enough about HSA development in the future that all of those who end up buying Kaveri/Excavator chips will suddenly be topping out benchmarks and frame rates in games, and raw performance numbers in productivity workloads within HSA influenced tasks?-

-Will AMD being the only hardware inside of the current consoles result in the first slew of Console to PC ports that heavily favor users running AMD hardware?-

-Is Intel doing the right thing after all the progress they made with their power saving architectures to suddenly drop a 6-8 core mainstream chip with 125-140+ Watt TDP's?-

-Is Intel going to regret not going super all out with performance increases and heavily padding their lead in IPC these last three years?-



All this stuff is certainly a lot to think about guys. I realize that. But these all of these questions (and a lot more I'm sure I've forgotten to put up there) add up basically to mean that our expensive hobby is, as of right now, the most interesting it has ever been. For that reason alone, I'm excited.
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post #407 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:36 PM
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Intel, the undisputed leader in this market, carrying nearly unlimited R&D resources and tons of money to throw around, have decided that annual updates bringing the enthusiasts less than 5% performance increases across the board is the way to go without competition these days.

They got about 15%, after clock speed losses, Sandy to Haswell for overclockers. For non-overclockers, they got a 20% clock speed gain with also a ~15%+ IPC gain - it's really not as terrible as "less than 5% performance increases". Intel's focused on releases every 2 years with tick/tock, and the last three were Nehalem, Sandy Bridge and Haswell - with big leaps between each one

Haswell is like 15% stronger clock for clock than sandy in pretty much every load, but where avx2 can be utilized it's more. At equal clocks, Haswell i7 is closer to 3930k than 2600k in x264. You lose some mhz, but not THAT much. 2600k's didn't easily go 5ghz+, only some of them got that high.

I don't believe in "good enough"~!!

240hz / gsync / low persistence is AWESOME

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post #408 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:41 PM
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They got about 15%, after clock speed losses, Sandy to Haswell for overclockers. For non-overclockers, they got a 20% clock speed gain with also a ~15%+ IPC gain - it's really not as terrible as "less than 5% performance increases". Intel's focused on releases every 2 years with tick/tock, and the last three were Nehalem, Sandy Bridge and Haswell - with big leaps between each one

Haswell is like 15% stronger clock for clock than sandy in pretty much every load, but where avx2 can be utilized it's more. At equal clocks, Haswell i7 is closer to 3930k than 2600k in x264. You lose some mhz, but not THAT much. 2600k's didn't easily go 5ghz+, only some of them got that high.

I get that, but the same argument could be made for Steamroller. Which also has a pretty big IPC increase across the board. But it's lack of being able to overclock to the height's of it's predecessor alongside the lack of a true highend variant built with all of Piledriver's advantages, essentially negates all of those gains.

But let's be honest here, this comparison is irrelevant for both companies.

The point of my statement back there was that Intel very easily could have used that time to push their advantage as far as possible. They could have almost completely negated any chance AMD might possibly ever be competitive with them again by just going crazy and putting as much distance between them in all the markets they currently have a performance lead in. No one can dispute that they certainly had the resources and the time alone on top to do such a thing.

But instead, they chose to go with this whole tick/tock thing, which we all know is market speak for, the least amount of performance increase we could get away with and still get you to consider buying a new Chipset/CPU Combo every year.

Which we all know from personal experience nowadays, is a red nightmare for pretty much every builder on these boards. Especially for those who hope to see palpable (and justifiable) performance gains for their money spent.

That sir, is all I meant by it.
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post #409 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 09:45 PM
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Technically, what was suppose to happen.

~125W Bulldozer = ~95W Piledriver
~95W Piledriver = ~65W Steamroller

What is suppose to happen with Excavator is the jump between Bulldozer and Steamroller.

~65W Steamroller = ~35W Excavator

A quad-core Excavator at ~65W TDP should have the same performance as;
A quad-core Bulldozer at ~250W TDP.
A quad-core Piledriver at ~190W TDP.
A quad-core Steamroller at ~130W TDP.

My horrible math skills would put an octo-core Excavator at ~95 watt TDP matching performance with an octo-core Piledriver at ~220 watt TDP.

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post #410 of 743 (permalink) Old 07-09-2014, 11:11 PM
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But we have no indication of a 6 or 8 core Steamroller or Excavator HEDT processor, is it ever gonna appear. And the 16-core processor "rumors" (rumors??) are about a 16 core SR or EX?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinf go_quote.gif

After having a meeting with some AMD directors, I can confirm the next two years are going to be very exciting!!!

I can't release details (NDA)... but their key business partnerships (arm, samsung, global foundries) are going to really innovate the CPU/APU/GPU industry.

Well, I'd rather wait for a new AMD CPU
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