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post #61 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:28 AM
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With just 40% increase in IPC (or roughly 50% over Piledriver)...
sad-smiley-002.gif

The design must reach at least 4.5GHz on the process available during the release and it must have at least 8 SMT cores (w/ 16 threads).

Given that AMD has no previous experience on the new manufacturing process and the available process variants will be targeted to LP (low power) I´d say the up to 4.5GHz is pretty damn tall order if not impossible. I would expect more like 3GHz stock and around 3.5GHz maximum frequency scaling when overclocked.

Unless these parts are able to clock similar way as Piledriver for example the 40% increase in IPC is not nearly enough.

A quad/hex/octa-core with Sandy-ish IPC and a decent power envelope would at least bring them back to Phenom II-like "good enough" status for PC gaming provided that the chipset features were decent and it was priced competitively.

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post #62 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:30 AM
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From the slides one can more or less tell with certainty that the new desktop GPUs for 2015 won't have any new performance per watt improvements besides the transition from GDDR5 to HBM. That isn't too reassuring.

On the CPU side are they targeting IB class performance? How much more IPC does Excavator have versus Piledriver?

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post #63 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

A quad/hex/octa-core with Sandy-ish IPC and a decent power envelope would at least bring them back to Phenom II-like "good enough" status for PC gaming provided that the chipset features were decent and it was priced competitively.

Platform features are going to be an interesting question since APUs and FXs are on the same platform. Does AMD prioritize price or features?


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post #64 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:32 AM
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Platform features are going to be an interesting question since APUs and FXs are on the same platform. Does AMD prioritize price or features?

theoretically if they produced 2 different chipsets then they could have both?

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post #65 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

From the slides one can more or less tell with certainty that the new desktop GPUs for 2015 won't have any new performance per watt improvements besides the transition from GDDR5 to HBM. That isn't too reassuring.

No, they just said they wouldn't be industry leaders in that area. We already knew that. Until they get off of 28nm we aren't going to see them compete with Nvidia in the PPW comparison again.

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post #66 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:33 AM
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Platform features are going to be an interesting question since APUs and FXs are on the same platform. Does AMD prioritize price or features?

Why not do both?

By that, I mean release a high pin count socket that allows them to put a lot of features on the "1090FX" chipset, but cut the more expensive/enthusiast-geared features on "1070" or whatever?

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post #67 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:34 AM
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40% improvement is something that I wanted to hear.
So looks like I will wait for Zen instead of trying to find some cheap Ivy(boards are cheaper).

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post #68 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:35 AM
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Anyone else really liking how most of the slides look?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

A quad/hex/octa-core with Sandy-ish IPC and a decent power envelope would at least bring them back to Phenom II-like "good enough" status for PC gaming provided that the chipset features were decent and it was priced competitively.
A hex with SMT that has ~85% performance per thread (not per clock or IPC, just in general at stock frequency) of what Haswell has priced between Intel's current 4C/4T and 4C/8T would be good enough. Especially if it's at the same power envelope, which isn't that far off if it's (nearly) a SoC. The die will probably cost most but that's pretty much negated with Intel throwing billions upon billions to maintain a slight edge in foundries. Unlike Intel they're also unlikely to cut SMT off of anything since the defects due to it are rather minimal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiOfPie View Post

Why not do both?

By that, I mean release a high pin count socket that allows them to put a lot of features on the "1090FX" chipset, but cut the more expensive/enthusiast-geared features on "1070" or whatever?
Too many pins is going to be really costly on the low end where every $10 in end cost matters.
E:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

From the slides one can more or less tell with certainty that the new desktop GPUs for 2015 won't have any new performance per watt improvements besides the transition from GDDR5 to HBM. That isn't too reassuring.

On the CPU side are they targeting IB class performance? How much more IPC does Excavator have versus Piledriver?
SR is roughly 10% over PD, while EX should be ~5% over SR. Zen being 40% over EX should make it at least 50% faster than PD taking marketing BS into account, a 2,8GHz Zen matching the 8350 in single-threaded and being faster in multithreaded sounds pretty nice.
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post #69 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:38 AM
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No, they just said they wouldn't be industry leaders in that area. We already knew that. Until they get off of 28nm we aren't going to see them compete with Nvidia in the PPW comparison again.

But that is a problem, 2x performance per watt as the slides suggest for 2016 means that they are relying exclusively on the process shrink, meaning that next year's GCN will be a die shrink of this year's + more cores. Which will mean that they are going to keep being behind Nvidia. Not to mention that Nvidia will have Pascal sometime next year. Did they say anything that isn't on the slides that may go against what I understood from the situation?

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post #70 of 283 (permalink) Old 05-06-2015, 11:38 AM
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Too many pins is going to be really costly on the low end where every $10 in end cost matters.

Good point, although Lisa did say earlier on in the presentation that they're planning on pivoting away from the low end a bit. Maybe they view it as an acceptable cost tradeoff.

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-Any entities--public or private--powerful enough to give people everything they want are also powerful enough to enslave them.
-Pride and shame should be based on one's accomplishments (or lack thereof) rather than uncontrollable identity characteristics.
-Intel and Nvidia are companies staffed by great engineers; they are usually managed by anticompetitive, immoral reptilians.
-AMD is a company staffed by great engineers; they are usually managed by five-year-olds with ADHD.
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