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post #671 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 09:44 PM
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Also been looking some things up but on mobile so it will have to wait until I'm at the desktop.

But the big ordeal is that this card is going to melt the slot or blowup the main board and associated components right?
Not that they cannot use the pcie compliance stamp on the packaging correct?

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Originally Posted by Tsumi go_quote.gif

You're just nitpicking words now. I was talking about in terms of performance, those are the only measurements that matter. Not IPC or clock speed.
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post #672 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:05 PM
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So let me get this right, random YOU-TUBER makes a claim = fact. Looniam provides copy of part of the pcie spec and you completely fail to read or acknowledge that.
Then proclaim that all the people involved with the design and production of said adapter card are completely incompetent at their daily jobs. rolleyes.gif

AMD did mess up several times in the last 20 years ... especially with power issues! Remember the good old Duron / Athlon XP days? Nice chips, had alot of them myself. Till the moment TOM's found out this things did have no overheat protection. The made a video where see the freaking die go several hundret degree Celsius. The Durons just exploded at some point. Even a few seconds were enough to grill the god damn CPU.

Now you tell me to trust AMD? I trust a Twitch guy with sound and reasonable arguments more than any you guys. Half of you is still talking without even knowing the basics. Someone messed up at AMD - it's crystal clear. Now I want to see how they fix this up without crippling the RX480 reference.

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How is this proof that AMD did the hardware wiring on the PCB wrong?

And as I've stated at least three times, even if the power distribution can't be programmed by rail in the bios, you could just as easily lower the global power target to decrease the total power draw until the sustained average through PEG does not exceed 75W.

Yeah, but to decrease the power draw will automatically lower the performance of the card. There is no magic at work but science. Pretty much everything goes over multiplicators. At first I thought it could be a bug in either the bios or the AMD software. This happend before with the cooler settings, remember? But this time it seem to be a deeper problem. The hardware wiring is strange at least.

Feels like the RX480 was stitched together at last minute.

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Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Not to mention undervolting is another option, though impractical to implement on a large scale. But claiming this is a hardware flaw that can't be fixed except by PCB redesign, yeah I don't buy that.
Right because nVidia fans don't do the exact same thing. Maybe you should head over to HardOCP and check out the witch hunt that's going on there, it's absolutely farcical.
So we've gone from 480 would cause motherboards to dei, to it'll pretty much do anything and everything, including blowing up your entire rig. Yeah ok I'm done here.

Overbearing the 12V can damage your mainboard or its components. in worst cases this also can damage other components. With this in mind I will never understand why you guys are so trustworthy. You neclect everything as if it was told by morons. Don't you have a sense of risk?
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post #673 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:16 PM
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AMD did mess up several times in the last 20 years ... especially with power issues! Remember the good old Duron / Athlon XP days? Nice chips, had alot of them myself. Till the moment TOM's found out this things did have no overheat protection. The made a video where see the freaking die go several hundret degree Celsius. The Durons just exploded at some point. Even a few seconds were enough to grill the god damn CPU.

Now you tell me to trust AMD? I trust a Twitch guy with sound and reasonable arguments more than any you guys. Half of you is still talking without even knowing the basics. Someone messed up at AMD - it's crystal clear. Now I want to see how they fix this up without crippling the RX480 reference.

 

And Fermi was moonlighting as a hibachi. Is Nvidia also forever unclean? We have two options in the discrete graphics market so keeping a Dwarven Book of Grudges based on the failures of unrelated products dating back nearly two decades makes very little sense. 

 

Don't trust AMD. Don't trust the Twitch guy. looniam provided you with information, you should probably use it. Also, if the under-volting results people are coming back with are anything to go by (and obviously they should be), adjusting the voltage targets with a driver shouldn't 'cripple' anything. People are literally gaining performance from under-volting. If anyone is talking rubbish, it's you.


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post #674 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

And Fermi was moonlighting as a hibachi. Is Nvidia also forever unclean? We have two options in the discrete graphics market so keeping a Dwarven Book of Grudges based on the failures of unrelated products dating back nearly two decades makes very little sense.

Fermi was a lesson and everyone is watching every new Geforece for similar issues. Nvidia seems to have learned from this fiasco.

Sometimes I wonder why AMD is unablo to learn. I mean when their fan control is flawed in the software to be at 20-30% ... OK. Then next time the voltage control is down the drain ... WHO CARES..!!!
(extreme sarcasm) rolleyes.gif

I mean, why would you trust any vendor if this happends over and over? Strangely enough it happends to AMD way to often. And the people keep that in mind. Those are the most basic security topics in mind. Why are they screwed up so often? Isn't this overly careless?
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Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

Don't trust AMD. Don't trust the Twitch guy. looniam provided you with information, you should probably use it.

This sounds incredible like some sort of cult. Why is this guy here in the forum more trustworthy? At the moment I try to figure out who has useful information at all. So many users just deny good information and spread their FUD and borderline stupidity over and over. Then someone else brings a guy with Paint? Seriously, I trust a multimeter more than a guy doing videos in Paint.
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Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

Also, if the under-volting results people are coming back with are anything to go by (and obviously they should be), adjusting the voltage targets with a driver shouldn't 'cripple' anything. People are literally gaining performance from under-volting. If anyone is talking rubbish, it's you.

Voltages are just part of the problem. The RX480 uses too much Amperes too. Regarding to power nothing seems to work as intended on this card. Less power equals lower performance. I wonder why nobody is angry about the potential loss in performance. A card should work straigth from the factory and not be patchwork after. What is rubbish about finding this ugly?
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post #675 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

AMD did mess up several times in the last 20 years ... especially with power issues! Remember the good old Duron / Athlon XP days? Nice chips, had alot of them myself. Till the moment TOM's found out this things did have no overheat protection. The made a video where see the freaking die go several hundret degree Celsius. The Durons just exploded at some point. Even a few seconds were enough to grill the god damn CPU.

Now you tell me to trust AMD? I trust a Twitch guy with sound and reasonable arguments more than any you guys. Half of you is still talking without even knowing the basics. Someone messed up at AMD - it's crystal clear. Now I want to see how they fix this up without crippling the RX480 reference.

Remember bumpgate? Or the infamous driver that caused GPU death by overheating? You sure you still want to trust nVidia now?
Quote:
Yeah, but to decrease the power draw will automatically lower the performance of the card. There is no magic at work but science. Pretty much everything goes over multiplicators. At first I thought it could be a bug in either the bios or the AMD software. This happend before with the cooler settings, remember? But this time it seem to be a deeper problem. The hardware wiring is strange at least.

Feels like the RX480 was stitched together at last minute.

Yes because everybody has a PhD in EE on the internet. rolleyes.gif

As I said, undervolting is another option, which decreases power draw while simultaneously increasing performance. If anything, this episode is more reminiscent of the 7970 GE launch where they juiced the chips with way too much voltage at stock. Or how Intel messed up mobile Haswell CPUs by using too high of a stock voltage.
Quote:
Overbearing the 12V can damage your mainboard or its components. in worst cases this also can damage other components. With this in mind I will never understand why you guys are so trustworthy. You neclect everything as if it was told by morons. Don't you have a sense of risk?

Because personal experience + those of others > fear-mongering on the internet? I guess I could also be desensitized since I overclock and overvolt both my CPU and GPUs. *shrug*

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post #676 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post


Fermi was a lesson and everyone is watching every new Geforece for similar issues. Nvidia seems to have learned from this fiasco.

Sometimes I wonder why AMD is unablo to learn. I mean when their fan control is flawed in the software to be at 20-30% ... OK. Then next time the voltage control is down the drain ... WHO CARES..!!!
(extreme sarcasm) rolleyes.gif

I mean, why would you trust any vendor if this happends over and over? Strangely enough it happends to AMD way to often. And the people keep that in mind.
This sounds incredible like some sort of cult. Why is this guy here in the forum more trustworthy? At the moment I try to figure out who has useful information at all. So many users just deny good information and spread their FUD and borderline stupidity over and over. Then someone else brings a guy with Paint? Seriously, I trust a multimeter more than a guy doing videos in Paint.
Voltages are just part of the problem. The RX480 uses too much Amperes too. Regarding to power nothing seems to work as intended on this card. Less power equals lower performance. I wonder why nobody is angry about the potential loss in performance. A card should work straigth from the factory and not be patchwork after. What is rubbish about finding this ugly?

 

LOL. You do realise that the twitch stream you linked is the selfsame buildzoid that did the video in Paint? Do you find him believable or not. Which is it? Either you're a bit thick or you're just not even paying attention to what your fellow posters have to say. You seem smart enough so I'll generously assume the latter. You're welcome.

 

"Strangely enough it happends to AMD way to often"; this is literally the first time that I can remember this specific problem being an issue on an AMD card. I'm not willing to use other random bugaboos with different products as some sort of convoluted formula that leads to this specific issue.

 

Yes, it's a problem. The card was obviously released with some goofy power delivery. It's not however the End of Times and if AMD says they can fix it with a driver, and if people have been able to successfully reduce power to the card without losing performance, then there probably is a simpler solution than calling back every production reference 480 and redesigning the PCB because somebody you believe (or don't believe, I'm still not clear on that), poked around with a multimeter.


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post #677 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by magnek View Post

Remember bumpgate? Or the infamous driver that caused GPU death by overheating? You sure you still want to trust nVidia now?

Yes because everybody has a PhD in EE on the internet. rolleyes.gif

As I said, undervolting is another option, which decreases power draw while simultaneously increasing performance. If anything, this episode is more reminiscent of the 7970 GE launch where they juiced the chips with way too much voltage at stock. Or how Intel messed up mobile Haswell CPUs by using too high of a stock voltage.
Because personal experience + those of others > fear-mongering on the internet? I guess I could also be desensitized since I overclock and overvolt both my CPU and GPUs. *shrug*
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperZan View Post

LOL. You do realise that the twitch stream you linked is the selfsame buildzoid that did the video in Paint? Do you find him believable or not. Which is it? Either you're a bit thick or you're just not even paying attention to what your fellow posters have to say. You seem smart enough so I'll generously assume the latter. You're welcome.

"Strangely enough it happends to AMD way to often"; this is literally the first time that I can remember this specific problem being an issue on an AMD card. I'm not willing to use other random bugaboos with different products as some sort of convoluted formula that leads to this specific issue.

Yes, it's a problem. The card was obviously released with some goofy power delivery. It's not however the End of Times and if AMD says they can fix it with a driver, and if people have been able to successfully reduce power to the card without losing performance, then there probably is a simpler solution than calling back every production reference 480 and redesigning the PCB because somebody you believe (or don't believe, I'm still not clear on that), poked around with a multimeter.

He have no idea what he's talking about, that simple.




Says that's from the PCIe Power PSU cable instead of the PSU just because he choose to believe that, so it must be a fact.

Polaris RX 480 wattage spikes are way lower than other Nvidia cards from the same market segment, 140W is nothing compared to the behemoth spikes from the 960 going as far as 240W, yet the RX 480 is the only one with issues because of the average being higher.

This video from AdoredTV really sums this up.

I don't even know how this thread is still going.
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post #678 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:50 PM
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Obviously I wish that AMD could ever have a product release that couldn't be nitpicked for some minor issue and blown way out of proportion by team green but it is what it is. I don't personally think anybody has anything to worry about and whatever issue is at play here will almost certainly be fixed very quickly in my opinion. But team green has succeeded again at shifting the focus away from what is overall a very good product release for AMD. Now of course the stupid pcie slot issue is all anybody can talk about, as though we are now witnessing the Auschwitz of motherboards happening right before our eyes!

I have a suggestion for any of you guys who want to become a Reddit legend. Take some old motherboard that you're not using anymore and jump two of the pins on the 24 pin connector. Place photos of burned motherboard on Reddit and claim that the evil 480 slaughtered your poor motherboard! You too can be a hero on the Internet! rolleyes.gif


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post #679 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:53 PM
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I had this exact damage happen to me years ago, but it wasn't amd it was nvidia gtx480 in quad sli. It was my fault also because i didnt use pcie aux power. I guess i should pretend it was nvidias fault though.

I had the same issue.
I didn't have aux power to the PCIE slots, I also overclocked the PCIE timings to get more out of the cards. Pushed too much from the 24 pin, killed the motherboard (cards and CPU were actually fine).


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post #680 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-02-2016, 10:55 PM
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Some guy mining without issues for 3 years on 3 280x burnt out the 12v pins on 24-pin mobo connector after mining for 6 hours on 3 480s. Must use powered pcie risers to avoid potential issues, esp with multi-GPU systems.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?to...88#msg15438988

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