[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification - Page 73 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Reddit] RX 480 fails PCI-E specification

 
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post #721 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:42 AM
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Oh really now... then how does a MSI R9 390x Gaming 8g card get to pull an average of 344W then? Remember.. the card has a 8 pin and a 6 pin connector. That means 150W and 75W for 225W.
Are you going to tell me that it is over PCIe power connector spec?



Therefore I have to ask... where did you get your information from?

And where is the measurement how much power is drawn from the PCI-E slot itself?
And is MSI 390X Gaming a Hawaii based reference design? rolleyessmileyanim.gif

Practically the AIBs can deviate from the reference design as much as they wish with their custom cards. And in many cases they do, either to lower the BOM or to improve the overclocking headroom.
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post #722 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:43 AM
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If I could find my darned fluke... and other parts. I'd do it for you tomorrow.

Maybe I'll actually dig for them and give you my data to help you out.



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post #723 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 01:51 AM
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Anyway, based on buildzoid's video the GPU VRM power input is infact split between the PCI-E slot and PCI-E power connector (and not just shorted), like I expected. w1zzard from TPU promised to make me some measurements to find out the exact structure of the card. If the power source for the GPU VRM phases are split 50/50 between PCI-E slot and the PCI-E power connector, I should be able to remedy the excess power draw from the slot quite easily. The fix could be applied either by Afterburner or by using a modified bios (once flash tools are available). The fix doesn't affect the total power draw of the card or the performance.
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Originally Posted by The Stilt View Post

And where is the measurement how much power is drawn from the PCI-E slot itself?
And is MSI 390X Gaming a Hawaii based reference design? rolleyessmileyanim.gif

Practically the AIBs can deviate from the reference design as much as they wish with their custom cards. And in many cases they do, either to lower the BOM or to improve the overclocking headroom.

So what you are therefore saying is that the MSI card is 120W over spec on the PCIe connectors? This sounds logical to you? MSI would not go ahead and maybe alleviate some of that over power draw on the PCIe connectors by drawing from the PCIe slot? Are you somehow inferring that MSI are incompetent?

You are the one making an extra ordinary claim here. All I ask is that you back it up with data.

It does not matter that the MSI card is not a reference design. Bitcoin miners do not exclusively use reference boards. I had a whole slew of AIB boards in my servers. I ran those servers 24/7 and I never ended up with a burnt out motherboard. I had some GPUs die (Gigabyte Windforce boards) but that is about it.

I used PCIe ribbon cables (not the powered kind either). My main servers used Gigabyte 990FX based boards with 6 PCIe slots (all filled).

Am I to believe that 3 relatively puny RX 480s (power usage wise) were capable of doing what my rigs could not? (fry motherboards).

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Fury/Hawaii and Grenada Graphics cards (barely) pulled any power from the PCIe connector?

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post #724 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post


So what you are therefore saying is that the MSI card is 120W over spec on the PCIe connectors? This sounds logical to you? MSI would not go ahead and maybe alleviate some of that over power draw on the PCIe connectors by drawing from the PCIe slot? Are you somehow inferring that MSI are incompetent?

You are the one making an extra ordinary claim here. All I ask is that you back it up with data.

It does not matter that the MSI card is not a reference design. Bitcoin miners do not exclusively use reference boards. I had a whole slew of AIB boards in my servers. I ran those servers 24/7 and I never ended up with a burnt out motherboard. I had some GPUs die (Gigabyte Windforce boards) but that is about it.

I used PCIe ribbon cables (not the powered kind either). My main servers used Gigabyte 990FX based boards with 6 PCIe slots (all filled).

Am I to believe that 3 relatively puny RX 480s (power usage wise) were capable of doing what my rigs could not? (fry motherboards).

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that Fury/Hawaii and Grenada Graphics cards (barely) pulled any power from the PCIe connector?

Most likely MSI violates the PCI-E power specifications quite heavily on those cards. That's not a problem since in reality both the 6-pin and the 8-pin can easily deliver 150W each. The 8-pin cable cannot deliver any more than a 6-pin cable as the two additional pins on the 8-pin cable are just for sense purpose. In real life scenario both of the connectors can handle at least 250W of power without any issues. And MSI knows that too.

Here's the PCI-E slot power draw on PowerColor 290X dual card (essentially a 295X2):

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post #725 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:08 AM
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Also I find it funny you cherry picked the best case scenario for that test, with a 1 full entire second of testing thumb.gif Just incredible, here's a 170 times larger test time

I find it hilarious that you don't know how graphs work, width of graphs and how pixels work.
But good job "cherry picking" the graph, its resize, and claim it as average of 150W while it isn't. rolleyes.gif


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post #726 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Mahigan View Post

Oh really now... then how does a MSI R9 390x Gaming 8g card get to pull an average of 344W then? Remember.. the card has a 8 pin and a 6 pin connector. That means 150W and 75W for 225W.
Are you going to tell me that it is over PCIe power connector spec?



Therefore I have to ask... where did you get your information from?

A card pulling more than 150W from the 8 pin and more than 75W from the 6pin is usually ok because most PSUs will allow it as can provide more power in most cases. So 200W from the 8 pin and 100W from the 6pin are mostly acceptable as long as you are using a good quality PSU.
At max, you will kill the PSU or the GPU, but not the motherboard tongue.gif
A card pulling more than 75W from the motherboard on the other hand, isn't very safe. A dead motherboard has the potential to harm other components as well.


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post #727 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Power Drill View Post

Yeah, just I expected, massive amount fuzz over nothing. Must be the nvidia shills playing here again but what do you know, nvidia products do have way bigger spikes on the PCI-E slot than AMD.

You're correct that there are too many haters in here but as the motherboard manufacturer's have said, it's not the spikes that's the problem it's the continuous draw that has the possibility of damaging your mobo (draw reaches 7 amps max continuous for the 480 versus the 2.5 amps of the 960 in spikes). If you read up on the thread and the PCper review it should give you an unbiased understanding of things. The bottom line is, AMD has acknowledged the issue and is issuing a new bios to fix the problem.

if you're a regular joe who buys bottom dollar parts and has no clue about about this issue, your mobo could become damaged. Most of the guys on this forum shouldn't have this issue but the rest of the comon folk might. So for us you're right, no big deal, we just flash a bios. For the average joe who just buys PCs with no clue about anything, they could be in a bind.

EDIT: IF you're buying a 480 like me, wait for the AIB version with better power delivery and it should be a non-issue (since I do plan to OC the 2 cards I'm getting). thumb.gif

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post #728 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 03:08 AM
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where did you get your information from?

TH did test the MSI 390X Gaming :



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-390x-r9-380-r7-370,4178-9.html

Ecept the spikes on PCIe, motherboard 12v is really good. 480X consumes 2X more than 390X on MB 12v.

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post #729 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 03:10 AM
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TH did test the MSI 390X Gaming :



http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-r9-390x-r9-380-r7-370,4178-9.html

Ecept the spikes on PCIe, motherboard 12v is really good. 480X consumes 2X more than 390X on MB 12v.

The spikes on the 390X are fine since what matters is the continuous draw! The 480X issue is the continuous draw.

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post #730 of 1129 (permalink) Old 07-03-2016, 07:16 AM
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Ugh,
Reading through all of this information just serves to remind me (as an owner of six different AMD cards):

Being an AMD supporter is exactly like being a fan of the Cleveland Browns... basically when you get together at a bar/pub with your fellow Brownies the conversations typically revolve around, "this is THE YEAR, this time we have the team and roster to take us ALL THE WAY, this year's draft was the best one ever, never discount our HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE, etc. etc."

Then we actually go up against the competition (including Detroit), get the living #### stomped out of us (both home and away) and basically just go mumble and complain among ourselves on the way back to the parking lot, drive off in our '93 Camaro to our parent's house, then proceed to go online and complain about how everything is one large NFL conspiracy against us (to our 30 FB friends).

And then every new year we plunk down $1,500 for tix and do it all again, because... this season will finally be the one.

Meanwhile: everyone outside of our circle just laughs at us while we suffer in our own little echo chambers.

TLDR: Nvidia has our number, we've just become so disappointed by AMD's crap over the years we no longer recognize it when others point it out and immediately get defensive about our sorry plight.


Myself: I'm holding out for a 1060 or saving for a 1070 this time around.
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