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[Techpowerup] NVIDIA DLSS and its Surprising Resolution Limitations

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post #41 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
What can you do with those RTX and Tensor cores besides DLSS and RTX effects, I'm still not clear on that ? I wonder if console and arcade emulators could use them in some way.
RT cores are just meant for Ray Tracing. Tensor cores can be used for a ton of different things. What I'm most excited for are AIs that generate human facial expressions. Every game developer said that will be the most difficult part to create photo realistic gaming.

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/ge...ns-from-audio/

Here's a few things that Tensor cores are currently training.

https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...ive-Growing-of

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/nv...tive-graphics/

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/tr...tions-with-ai/

https://youtu.be/pkkph4JhrCg

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post #42 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
RT cores are just meant for Ray Tracing. Tensor cores can be used for a ton of different things. What I'm most excited for are AIs that generate human facial expressions. Every game developer said that will be the most difficult part to create photo realistic gaming.

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/ge...ns-from-audio/

Here's a few things that Tensor cores are currently training.

https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...ive-Growing-of

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/nv...tive-graphics/

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/tr...tions-with-ai/

https://youtu.be/pkkph4JhrCg
Thanks for all those links, they can't be used at all for traditional 3D rendering though right ?

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post #43 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 06:23 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
Thanks for all those links, they can't be used at all for traditional 3D rendering though right ?
They can be used along side traditional rendering just like DLSS. These task will happen in real time.

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post #44 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I still want to see genuine AI in games, kind of the equivalent of Ray Tracing for AI programming.
The implications of "Real AI" on immersion and gameplay reach far beyond any possible impact of a fancy Global Illumination system.
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post #45 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 07:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
I still want to see genuine AI in games, kind of the equivalent of Ray Tracing for AI programming.
The implications of "Real AI" on immersion and gameplay reach far beyond any possible impact of a fancy Global Illumination system.
I was reading one of my old PC gaming magazine from 1997 (Joystick, old French magazine) and there was an article where they visited a small French company that was promising some kind of software solution for a truly revolutionary method of gaming AI that was self-learning and would become more and more intelligent the more you played, they even had tech demos they showed the journalists and they were blown-away, the NPCs were acting intelligently and closer to humans than just regulars game characters, the company was saying they were already in contact with a few big names in the industry and were releasing their products "very shortly".

And I never heard of them ever after that, I wonder if it was just completely fake (Joystick did seemed convinced it was real at least, and they were a pretty good magazine) or they just failed financially, but the way it was described it seemed far more advanced than even the best AI in current games, so I can only imagine if it would have been used since 1997 where we would be now.

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post #46 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 08:54 PM
 
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
I still want to see genuine AI in games, kind of the equivalent of Ray Tracing for AI programming.
The implications of "Real AI" on immersion and gameplay reach far beyond any possible impact of a fancy Global Illumination system.
Online multiplayer killed the dream of realistic AI, sadly. Those who play single player games mainly want a dumb shooting gallery and therefore devs don't bother with AI anymore since FEAR.

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post #47 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-15-2019, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Robot View Post
Online multiplayer killed the dream of realistic AI, sadly. Those who play single player games mainly want a dumb shooting gallery and therefore devs don't bother with AI anymore since FEAR.
I think the game designers at CD Projekt RED and Bethesda would have a very different perspective, it's just a shame that the sort of content that would take advantage of this hardware best takes so incredibly long to create.

For another example of sustained interest in AI, here's an article on an NPC Mod for Oblivion: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...hett-worked-on
Ok, it's just a mod for an ancient game, but this kind of thing exists because no-one on a production schedule thinks they have time for (or they aren't given the time for) that much depth (really with the 10 year production cycle on TES games now we should be expecting a lot more).
If it's just a production bottleneck preventing in depth AI from being created in normal games, then like with AI driven animations and modelling, maybe hardware accelerated AI could help deliver the content people want but developers gave up trying to produce.

And on a similar note, I really wonder how much these AI generated effects are still dependent on the CPU? In a best case scenario if Tenser Cores can be used to offload work away from the CPU then everyone in the hardware industry should be going bonkers for this stuff.

Regardless, the current situation with RTX is utterly ridiculous and the lack of a high end Turing based GTX card is really inexcusable.
New Tech is all fine and dandy but I still want to play existing games in 4K120, it sounds like a lot of other people do too but all you see in the comments is "It's impossible with current hardware" or "It would cost way too much $$$".
The farce of those sentiments is that when half of the die area on RTX cards is non-rasterizing, we know that Nvidia could give double the performance for the same cost in a Turing based GTX card.
Maybe most people are actually just giving excuses and not really interested in running higher resolutions at all, but at least if we take people at their word then the whole problem here is cost, and the design of RTX hardware is actually an aggressive move by Nvidia trying to kill the idea of 4K gaming for the masses.
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post #48 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 02:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post
What can you do with those RTX and Tensor cores besides DLSS and RTX effects, I'm still not clear on that ? I wonder if console and arcade emulators could use them in some way.
Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
RT cores are just meant for Ray Tracing. Tensor cores can be used for a ton of different things. What I'm most excited for are AIs that generate human facial expressions. Every game developer said that will be the most difficult part to create photo realistic gaming.

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/ge...ns-from-audio/

Here's a few things that Tensor cores are currently training.

https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...ive-Growing-of

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/nv...tive-graphics/

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/tr...tions-with-ai/

While Tensor Cores are most commonly used with neural networks (it is marketed as such) they simply accelerate the FP16 -> FP32 convolutions involved in that in hardware (multiply accumulate). Convolutions are pretty widespread kernels that are used in image processing, audio processing and other domains of DSP. So it’s not theoretically limited to ML, though ML is probably the most efficient way to deal with these problems.

I had been saying this for a while now, but here are some sources that explain what the cores are and how they can be interfaced through the API.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1803.04014.pdf
https://devblogs.nvidia.com/programm...-cores-cuda-9/
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/t...r-cores-gv100/

 




Last edited by TheBlademaster01; 02-16-2019 at 05:56 AM.
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post #49 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-16-2019, 02:40 AM
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im waiting for GTX2080ti to be release rather then the RTX crap.

im sure nvidia would have tons of RTX chips with faulty tensor cores given their "escapes" and they can make a GTX version of their 2080ti by lasering off the tensor core ie the 1660ti or what ever they are calling it

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post #50 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-17-2019, 03:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
RT cores are just meant for Ray Tracing. Tensor cores can be used for a ton of different things. What I'm most excited for are AIs that generate human facial expressions. Every game developer said that will be the most difficult part to create photo realistic gaming.

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/ge...ns-from-audio/

Here's a few things that Tensor cores are currently training.

https://research.nvidia.com/publicat...ive-Growing-of

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/nv...tive-graphics/

https://news.developer.nvidia.com/tr...tions-with-ai/

https://youtu.be/pkkph4JhrCg
Great, now anyone can make videos with anyone they want and not only their face. What could go wrong.
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