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[Techpowerup] NVIDIA DLSS and its Surprising Resolution Limitations

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post #61 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=3DOGA2_GETQ Not sure if anyone has posted this yet?

DLSS is garbage as of the moment, just like RTX...no surprise there really, just more Nvidia smoke and mirrors, like PhysX, Hairworks etc...
I don't agree w/you on PhysX being smoke and mirrors. In Killling Floor 2 the Nvidia FleX effects are amazing:
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post #62 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
I don't agree w/you on PhysX being smoke and mirrors. In Killling Floor 2 the Nvidia FleX effects are amazing:
Ha the old days when physics were over exaggerated. Look at how far we've come with games like resident evil 2 and doom eternal.

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post #63 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 06:40 PM
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The whole turing lineup and technology is a mess.


Gimmicks, nothing but gimmicks, RTX is overrated and premature, DLSS is overhyped and ruined AA quality.


Please go back to original GTX core and beef them up in 7nm, dont bring us RTX nonsense again until post 5nm+ fabrication when we are running 4K 120 hz at max setting for standard rasterization.

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post #64 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
The whole turing lineup and technology is a mess.


Gimmicks, nothing but gimmicks, RTX is overrated and premature, DLSS is overhyped and ruined AA quality.


Please go back to original GTX core and beef them up in 7nm, dont bring us RTX nonsense again until post 5nm+ fabrication when we are running 4K 120 hz at max setting for standard rasterization.

Nah, With DXR and Vulkan Ray tracing, with DirectML and all, whole industry is moving toward that direction, and Nvidia took the opportunity to jump the gun early. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD introduces their own version of tensor cores to address both in the near future. I expect great things from RT and machine learning based super sampling in a few years.

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post #65 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by GHADthc View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=3DOGA2_GETQ Not sure if anyone has posted this yet?

DLSS is garbage as of the moment, just like RTX...no surprise there really, just more Nvidia smoke and mirrors, like PhysX, Hairworks etc...
The guy at Hardware Unboxed is actually being too polite.
The Silicon Area consumed by Tenser Cores is 50% as large as the area for Cuda Cores (according ot Nvidia’s marketing material).
Even if we use a hypothetical situation of a card that has no Ray Trace cores and only Tenser Cores (in reality the cost of RTX is equal to 2X more Cuda Cores), the image quality that DLSS needs to hit in order to be of equal value to a non-RTX card is that it look the same as Upscale+TAA while performing with 50% better framerates (Or give 50% better detail at the same framerate, but that would be hard to quantify).

Because this feature actually uses dedicated hardware it must significantly outperform upscaling before it can be considered of equal value.

Last edited by ILoveHighDPI; 02-18-2019 at 11:14 PM.
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post #66 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-18-2019, 11:10 PM
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It has resolution limitations because it has to drive a supported similar aspect ratio at lower resolution in order to function. It is literally displaying less detail in a "motion blur for still images" mode.

Furthermore it doesn't even require Dx12 or anything else nV to function since the PS4 does it just fine on an AMD APU
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post #67 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
The guy at Hardware Unboxed is actually being too polite.
The Silicon Area consumed by Tenser Cores is 50% as large as the area for Cuda Cores (according ot Nvidia’s marketing material).
Even if we use a hypothetical situation of a card that has no Ray Trace cores and only Tenser Cores (in reality the cost of RTX is equal to 2X more Cuda Cores), the image quality that DLSS needs to hit in order to be of equal value to a non-RTX card is that it look the same as Upscale+TAA while performing with 50% better framerates (Or give 50% better detail at the same framerate, but that would be hard to quantify).

Because this feature actually uses dedicated hardware it must significantly outperform upscaling before it can be considered of equal value.
I think I'd rather have the cuda cores.
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post #68 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
I think I'd rather have the cuda cores.

Here's the thing, it might very well be that on 12nm you couldn't have all those CUDA cores on a reasonable TDP to begin with. Nvidia most probably gets away with a 250w TDP for the 2080 Ti (260w for the FE) because when you're not using RTX features a big portion of the card is idle, and when you are, the CUDA cores are bottlenecked by the RTX cores (RT+Tensor), so it was a smart way for them to manage things.


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post #69 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 05:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Kpjoslee View Post
Nah, With DXR and Vulkan Ray tracing, with DirectML and all, whole industry is moving toward that direction, and Nvidia took the opportunity to jump the gun early. I wouldn't be surprised if AMD introduces their own version of tensor cores to address both in the near future. I expect great things from RT and machine learning based super sampling in a few years.
You dont seem to understand my point when I say dont give us RTX before 5nm fabrication. It is a clear statement that RTX is way too premature at this point.

Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
The guy at Hardware Unboxed is actually being too polite.
The Silicon Area consumed by Tenser Cores is 50% as large as the area for Cuda Cores (according ot Nvidia’s marketing material).
Even if we use a hypothetical situation of a card that has no Ray Trace cores and only Tenser Cores (in reality the cost of RTX is equal to 2X more Cuda Cores), the image quality that DLSS needs to hit in order to be of equal value to a non-RTX card is that it look the same as Upscale+TAA while performing with 50% better framerates (Or give 50% better detail at the same framerate, but that would be hard to quantify).

Because this feature actually uses dedicated hardware it must significantly outperform upscaling before it can be considered of equal value.
Where do you even get the figure from, the last I check in comparison with both GP100 and GV100, after scaling, TENSOR do not consume >5% of the die. It is in fact negligible.


Last edited by ryan92084; 02-20-2019 at 04:53 AM.
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post #70 of 91 (permalink) Old 02-19-2019, 06:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
You dont seem to understand my point when I say dont give us RTX before 5nm fabrication. It is a clear statement that RTX is way too premature at this point.
Well, there is no point in arguing that scenario since they already decided to move that direction. Though it might have made sense to wait on ray tracing until 5nm but developers still have to go through learning process of implementing the technology. It is probably better to jump on it now and when the technology matures by the time 5nm hits with proper level of performance, developers will be ready to fully embrace it.

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