[G3D] TSMC Unveils 6-nanometer Process - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[G3D] TSMC Unveils 6-nanometer Process

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
Accordingly to some youtube prediction, CPU is no longer about speed but 3D stacking. In that case the IPC will be the king as high density stack will not tolerate heat that result from high frequency.


3D stacking is predicted to arrive within 2 generation from now.
3D stacking is only used for small form factors to compete with ARM. If you notice Intel's Lakefield is a big.little design. YouTube predictions are just that and nothing more.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
Neat. Anybody with the know-how care to chime in and tell us plain old enthusiasts what this means for performance?
I'll tell you that the 7nm process should be dirt cheap by the time AMD releases their Navi and certainly when they release their big Navi next year along with Nvidia's 7 nm offering. No more excuses that it is a new node when 6nm has been realized and in some productions by that time.

So no more excuses from the GPU makers, unless Nvidia decides that your GPU has now new chips that will also cook you eggs in the morning for an extra $1000.

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:06 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Source


Feels like they are going to be the top chip manufacturer very soon, considering intel are still only on their way to 10nm.

Both AMD and Nvidia could bring much stronger GPUs than 7nm could bring. And this could be great for nvidia considering they have been waiting on 7nm, so they might bring cards in 6nm instead next year, since AMD are planned to bring navi this year, so 7nm.

And if AMD could use that higher density for lower power, and if manufacturing allows, higher speeds, they could finally and completely de-throne intel from the top CPU market with 6nm CPUs and high core speeds.


Feels like this year is only going to be a preview of all the great things coming in 2020.
2020 will definitely have many ups and luzl .
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:12 AM
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by huzzug View Post
I don't think there is going to be 6nm chips from Nvidia in 2020 as the foundry is planning to begin risk production in 2020. Finalization of the silicon may take time.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13445...5nm-risk-in-q2

TSMC is also doing 5nm runs.
Not so sure.
They state that 7nm to 6nm will be as is. 5nm might not be. So if nvidia will be planning to do 7nm, we might expect it to turn out to be 6nm.


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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
I'll tell you that the 7nm process should be dirt cheap by the time AMD releases their Navi and certainly when they release their big Navi next year along with Nvidia's 7 nm offering. No more excuses that it is a new node when 6nm has been realized and in some productions by that time.

So no more excuses from the GPU makers, unless Nvidia decides that your GPU has now new chips that will also cook you eggs in the morning for an extra $1000.
It will fall again about competition.
If AMD and nvidia only trade blows in the mid and low sections, those will be cheaper, but on the high end, if nvidia continues their dominance, than I expect prices to stay high.
Maybe not 1000$ high, but high.


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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
Accordingly to some youtube prediction, CPU is no longer about speed but 3D stacking. In that case the IPC will be the king as high density stack will not tolerate heat that result from high frequency.


3D stacking is predicted to arrive within 2 generation from now.

At first they will only be stacking memory and IO type stuff. Not cores on top of cores.
IBM has experimented on microchannel cooling though, where they have water channels inside the CPU die that allows the water to cool the internals. This tech will be needed if someone wants to stack a bunch of cores on top of each other and expect to cool them. There are issues with this though, as water pressure and flow must be carefully regulated and maintained. This would also require a complete change in package, socket, and board design. They may be able to "fudge it" and instead of microchannels within each die, they could instead put a big fat channel that runs through much of the layer area between each core stack. Still requires package redesign though. Most likely design would be a package something the size of Epyc, with a whole interposer in the package, and water inlet and outlet port on it directly. Inside it would contain some small regulators to keep pressure what it needs to be so the channels dont blow out and kill the CPU. They have to do something like this as they will never rely on end users to set of the pressure regulators properly, or even want them end user serviceable.
edit:
https://phys.org/news/2017-10-higher...el-cooler.html


Last edited by EniGma1987; 04-16-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:26 AM
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I expect prices to stay high. If AMD brings the heat I think they will match Nvidias pricing instead of Nvidia coming down in price.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Almost nothing as performance doesn't increase anymore with lower node size. It actually starts to do the opposite. You can save power but you won't automatically gain better clocks as before.

5,6,7nm... not a huge difference.

Most of these are used for low power devices.

TSMC has been on top for a long time now.
Well, you can also use the die area for more cores, or a more complicated pipeline, or more CPU cache, or any other number of things that can improve performance in other ways.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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It seems like their 6nm isnt much different from their 7nm euv which is about to bring similar density improve over 7nm.

Quote: Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
Neat. Anybody with the know-how care to chime in and tell us plain old enthusiasts what this means for performance?
I'll tell you that the 7nm process should be dirt cheap by the time AMD releases their Navi and certainly when they release their big Navi next year along with Nvidia's 7 nm offering. No more excuses that it is a new node when 6nm has been realized and in some productions by that time.

So no more excuses from the GPU makers, unless Nvidia decides that your GPU has now new chips that will also cook you eggs in the morning for an extra $1000.
Please, AMD wouldnt have gone the ways of chiplets instead of monolithic chips if 7nm prices were able to drop down that quick.

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Last edited by ryan92084; 04-17-2019 at 05:27 AM.
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