[ET] No, the PlayStation 5 Doesn’t Use AMD’s ‘Ryzen 3600G’ - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[ET] No, the PlayStation 5 Doesn’t Use AMD’s ‘Ryzen 3600G’

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by StAndrew View Post
Pretty much. More to that point, making a compact package is costly as well. The console isnt the money maker for Sony or Microsoft, its the games, so consoles are created with the "just enough and no more" mentality. So ideally you want more ppl buying your console so they also buy your games. Console costs are driven down to the max. Microsoft, IIRC, actually loses money on each Xbox sale.
Both PS4 and Xbox One were profitable on a per-unit basis at launch. They don’t make money on Black Friday, but the everyday store price is probably still profitable.
Xbox One X on the other hand is lightly subsidized, and all signs point to PS5 and Xbox Anaconda/Lockheart being built with a very different philosophy from the generation we’re in now.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 10:01 AM
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Well even crappy little apu's cost money and it's not like the only option for a dedicated gpu is a 2080ti. I'm sure AMD has some 7nm gpu's in the works that would be perfect for a low powered small package like a console. It just seems like the consoles should be more like that Intel Nuc (the one with a skull) with a single board that has a cpu and a gpu on it instead of using an APU.

Space is irrelevant at this point unless they are wanting to reduce the console size. You could build an ITX system in a PS4 case with off the shelf components. An optional external optical drive would help but some people would lose their minds.

Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
Those thin laptops with RTX 2080 use the Max-Q versions which throttle heavily on demanding games and are slower than the GTX 1080. The laptops that don't throttle are the DTR laptops and they are loud around 49.5 dB(A) while consoles are between 28-36. A 7nm part that compares to a GTX 1080 would be perfect for a console.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10795...ith-gtx-1080/2
I wasn't using it as an example of a good product (I think ultrabooks are as stupid as laptops get), just an example of how small things can be.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 12:32 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
Well even crappy little apu's cost money and it's not like the only option for a dedicated gpu is a 2080ti. I'm sure AMD has some 7nm gpu's in the works that would be perfect for a low powered small package like a console. It just seems like the consoles should be more like that Intel Nuc (the one with a skull) with a single board that has a cpu and a gpu on it instead of using an APU.

Space is irrelevant at this point unless they are wanting to reduce the console size. You could build an ITX system in a PS4 case with off the shelf components. An optional external optical drive would help but some people would lose their minds.



I wasn't using it as an example of a good product (I think ultrabooks are as stupid as laptops get), just an example of how small things can be.
yeah, i think cost is more of the factor than size, they could make the PS5 a tad bit bigger with a chunky passive heatsink, but the cost would definitely exceed the $500 price point.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 07:29 AM
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Well if they are building it with some sort of APU they should be able to sell two of them for $500. Nothing else on it will be expensive unless they throw in NVME drives.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-01-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
Well if they are building it with some sort of APU they should be able to sell two of them for $500. Nothing else on it will be expensive unless they throw in NVME drives.
Depends on their targets really.

PS4 supposed bom back then was around $ 380 in early 2013 that had maybe had a custom $ 150-200 GPU ($ 7850 with 8 ACE units where 7870 only had 2).

7850 msrp was about $ 250 a year before the PS4 reached the market.

https://news.ihsmarkit.com/sites/ihs...ystation_1.PNG

Unless we're also working close to manufacturers or work similar to IHS, their guess is probably much more spot on than most others.

PS4 APU supposedly cost $ 100 and that has 8 jaguar mobile cores on top where on the mobile non existed as 8 core variants.

It also depends on how much Sony wants to eat as an initial loss and their desired PS5 $ MSRP.

$ 250 bom per unit might seem too cheap for a next gen.

I think it's more realistic for the next gen APUs to cost at least around and no less than PS4's $ 100 price point.

We also don't know how much RAM and storage form(s)/format(s) it'll have.

There's a YT vid of Sony's lead PS4 architect where he mentioned that they were trusted about $ 1 billion for the PS4.

I think that a big reason they went with an APU is because it's more cost effective in both in manufacturing the APU itself and the required package/cooling/heatsink designs (other than R&D).

Maybe they also chose APU to add a thin layer of mystery and also act as a differentiator among the sea of pc shelf parts.

Who knows. Maybe there's even a political/corporate shady dealings reason they went with the APU instead of a CPU and GPU design but I think it's more realistic to imagine the APU as a more cost effective solution for consoles.

Not sure with NUC's market economy but seems insane at $ 999 MSRP with no storage and RAM. Definitely playing too much of the low volume-high margin strategy there.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 12:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Maybe they also chose APU to add a thin layer of mystery and also act as a differentiator among the sea of pc shelf parts.

Who knows. Maybe there's even a political/corporate shady dealings reason they went with the APU instead of a CPU and GPU design but I think it's more realistic to imagine the APU as a more cost effective solution for consoles.

Not sure with NUC's market economy but seems insane at $ 999 MSRP with no storage and RAM. Definitely playing too much of the low volume-high margin strategy there.
Back at the start of the generation I remember reading that the CPU power deficiency in PS4 was a known factor but the low latency interface to GPGPU functionality convinced Sony it was worth the risk.

“Theoretically” the single die APU has advantages in utilizing the GPU for general computation.
It’s interesting to think how Chiplets will affect this aspect of the system, how much difference is there between single die, single package with Chiplets, and traditional CPU/GPU communication through the Motherboard.
This is the only reason I can think of that the new consoles would still be a single die design, if the advantages in GPGPU are still significant enough to outweigh the benefits of larger individual components in Chiplet form.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 02:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
Back at the start of the generation I remember reading that the CPU power deficiency in PS4 was a known factor but the low latency interface to GPGPU functionality convinced Sony it was worth the risk.

“Theoretically” the single die APU has advantages in utilizing the GPU for general computation.
It’s interesting to think how Chiplets will affect this aspect of the system, how much difference is there between single die, single package with Chiplets, and traditional CPU/GPU communication through the Motherboard.
This is the only reason I can think of that the new consoles would still be a single die design, if the advantages in GPGPU are still significant enough to outweigh the benefits of larger individual components in Chiplet form.
Still trying to wrap my head around chiplets. I guess that's how it is moving forward but it still makes me thing a single die would be much more simple and cost effective.

I'm assuming the major chiplet advantage is some sort of modular "chip" design? I guess that can work for Sony and AMD for a cheaper product if it does really use less custom chip where pc chiplets can be "salvaged" onto consoles or vice versa.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 05:26 PM
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It would be a massive cube chip built from the inside out, with the CPU/GPU threaded through layers of ram. Quantum computing from a provider would be the way to go when we get to the advanced stages.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:03 PM
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I could only imagine the performance moat Sony would have if they managed to integrate a quantum CPU into the PS5. The tech is a ways off from being mainstream but it would certainly be neat.

I could see a deal occurring where Google licenses quantum tech to Sony in exchange for the PS5 performing distributed AI modelling while at idle. Would wreak havoc on your power bill though. Not to mention the heat it would put out.


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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 05-04-2019, 02:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tubers View Post
Still trying to wrap my head around chiplets. I guess that's how it is moving forward but it still makes me thing a single die would be much more simple and cost effective.

I'm assuming the major chiplet advantage is some sort of modular "chip" design? I guess that can work for Sony and AMD for a cheaper product if it does really use less custom chip where pc chiplets can be "salvaged" onto consoles or vice versa.
It’s not about modularity, that’s just a side benefit.
Die Yeilds increase/decrease disproportionately to Die Size. 2X more surface area on a chip means far More than double the malfunction rate.
I suppose with modern designs averaging for dead cores maybe they’ve learned to mitigate some of the extra expense of large dies but it’s probably still a decent cost savings or else AMD wouldn’t be pursuing Chiplets so fervently.

So comparing Chiplets vs. a Single Die, an SoC using Chiplets should be able to have much more total silicon for the same price, but the major downside is increased latency.
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