[HDTVTest] Samsung To Begin QD-OLED "Trial Production" Later This Year - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[HDTVTest] Samsung To Begin QD-OLED "Trial Production" Later This Year

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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 04:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
They have prototypes available in sizes good for smartwatches, smartphones, and all the way up to giant TVs. Size doesnt matter on whether it is doable or not.
pixel density is also a non-issue like many people seem to think. a decade ago they were already in the thousands of PPI range, and a new Canadian company also just demonstrated a 30,000 PPI micro-LED display a few weeks ago (new record). People think they can only be large because of the 4k resolution Samsung used on their "the wall" display. However mLED does not use 1 pixel on the hardware per pixel of displayed resolution. In the same manner as 1080p being displayed on a 4k monitor uses 4 hardware pixels per 1 pixel of resolution, mLED uses dozens to even thousands of hardware pixels to 1 pixel of displayed content. So pixel density and hardware resolution is extremely high, even if we still only send the display a 4k frame that our video cable supports.
Right, currently we have very small prototypes and very large in production. The question is will the small tech scale up or the big scale down to the standard 55-80" by 2023? Samsung obviously doesn't think so.

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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 07:33 AM
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Wow, what a load.

I looked into Samsung's quantum dot tech a while back, and while I was really intrigued by it at first as you can make quantum dot emissive displays, that's not what this is. It's a quantum dot absorptive filter in their products, and that's another thing entirely. Yes, it's better than an LCD panel, since you don't start with throwing half of the light away at the first polarizer, but you still are running the problem of an absorptive filter with a backlight. Emissive displays will always beat them for black levels and therefore contrast, and that applies to color contrast as well.

Sure, you can put OLEDs behind a quantum dot absorptive filter, but that's just taking one technology and then adding another that plays to its weaknesses instead of its strengths. The problem with OLED is brightness, they simply can't put out the same light levels and with the brightness they can achieve longevity becomes an issue. Putting an absorptive filter in front of it just makes everything bad about OLED worse. The alternative approach that they seem to be using, which is to use an OLED emitter that is downconverted by the quantum dots, will again lose brightness due to inefficiency in the energy transfers. So, same problem: taking an OLED with brightness issues and making it less bright using quantum dots to change the color of the backlight.

And no, they can't make an emissive quantum dot display. I ran the math a while back while I was trying to sift through Samsung's QLED marketspeak, and it would take around fifty standard semiconductor wafers to make a 75" TV out of emissive quantum dots. Completely hopeless.

Last edited by Mand12; 05-14-2019 at 07:40 AM.
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:35 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
And no, they can't make an emissive quantum dot display. I ran the math a while back while I was trying to sift through Samsung's QLED marketspeak, and it would take around fifty standard semiconductor wafers to make a 75" TV out of emissive quantum dots. Completely hopeless.
You heard it here first, folks! It can't be done. Someone tell Samsung to halt all production.

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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
You heard it here first, folks! It can't be done. Someone tell Samsung to halt all production.
They would have to start first

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
You heard it here first, folks! It can't be done. Someone tell Samsung to halt all production.
My point was that it would never be commercially viable, which you well know.
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
My point was that it would never be commercially viable, which you well know.
Actually, I don't well know. Looking for a commercially viable semblance of an OLED competitor, that also excels where it faults, in the marketing material for QLED was never going to be very fruitful because they never meant QLED to be anything other than a different, though better, type of backlight.

We have no idea what kind of configuration they deemed potentially viable to fulfill the role they intend to surpass OLED's PQ, other than the fact that they're probably going to use a mix of organic and non-organic LED's.

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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Actually, I don't well know. Looking for a commercially viable semblance of an OLED competitor, that also excels where it faults, in the marketing material for QLED was never going to be very fruitful because they never meant QLED to be anything other than a different, though better, type of backlight.

We have no idea what kind of configuration they deemed potentially viable to fulfill the role they intend to surpass OLED's PQ, other than the fact that they're probably going to use a mix of organic and non-organic LED's.
So if you know so little, why the snide remark at someone who does know more and thought it helpful to share? I mean, I could go into more detail about how quantum dots work and what they're capable of doing, but I'm not inclined to throw any more bones if this is the response I get.
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:26 AM
 
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mand12 View Post
Wow, what a load.

I looked into Samsung's quantum dot tech a while back, and while I was really intrigued by it at first as you can make quantum dot emissive displays, that's not what this is.
QD-OLED is emissive though. It sounds like you may be a little confused about what's what. Quantum dots can be used several different ways in a display. Check out this graphic:




Samsung's "QLED" TVs they've been selling for a few years (and the "SUHD" TVs before that) are the first type: traditional LCDs with a quantum dot film-enhanced backlight. This gets you a somewhat better color gamut, but doesn't do anything to fix LCD's shortcomings (contrast, viewing angles etc.)

QD-OLED, in contrast, is a variant of the photo-emissive type (2nd from bottom). This type uses quantum dots as color converters (QDCCs) on top of another display type - LCD, OLED, or even MicroLED could be used.

In this case, with QD-OLED Samsung is using OLED to produce only blue light, which is converted using QDCCs into red and green (the blue subpixels are lit by the OLED directly. An advantage of this approach is that you don't need to pattern the OLED emitters to make RGB, reducing manufacturing complexity and cost. This is similar to LG's patented WOLED approach, except that uses white OLEDs plus traditional color filters, whereas QD-OLED uses blue OLEDs plus QDCCs.
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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 11:46 AM
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Yes, I talked about that aspect of it, and mentioned the efficiency hit from downconversion. Also, since they're still polarization devices, you get another 50% brightness hit. Which, when you're starting with a blue OLED, the type that has the fastest decay rate, is a major problem.

Manufacturing RGB OLED subpixels is no harder and likely easier than manufacturing quantum dot conversion subpixels, so you don't actually reduce overall complexity. The color patterning still has to happen, it just happens at a different stage.

The most efficient way to do color displays is to pattern the emitters. That's what RGB subpixel OLED does. That's not what QD-OLED is going to do. Yes, it will still achieve good black levels because you get subpixel intensity patterning, but the brightness will be abysmal. And because of the abysmal brightness, you'll have to crank up the OLED to levels where longevity will suffer. Burn-in would be the logical result, spots of your TV where the absolute intensity has to be higher are going to decay faster than the rest. It's taking an existing issue with OLED and making it worse.

It's that last line on the chart that's a legitimate competitor to OLED. Electroluminescent displays might get there, as but they don't have the brightness yet as far as I know. Maybe in that 2021-2023 timeframe they will have improved to the point of being an alternate emitter type.

As far as the holy grail, that's a fully inorganic display. Inorganic RGB-patterned emitters will be the best display technology we can get, and people have done it. Micro-LED devices are already being used by helmet-mounted displays, for example. The problem is that manufacturing costs are enormous, even for a few square inches, so only the military can afford it. And it's completely out of the question for TV sizes as a commercial product.

Last edited by Mand12; 05-14-2019 at 11:53 AM.
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