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post #41 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:25 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
I think most people are excited for the XT version. Which seems to be on average a bit better than the RTX2070, and technically a hundred Dollars less. The real issue though is AMD cards never seem to sell for MSRP, they are always around $50-100 more expensive. SO in the end it will be a bad value as well I think.
I know I was honestly hoping for the XT level performance in a $400 price point. Sucks that this gen is raising the cost bar too on the AMD side and they cant even use the "RT cores" excuse.

Here in Europe (Germany), the 2070 is already at around 450€, with the 2060 at 350€ (these are after tax). Even if those Super rumours aren't true, I have a feeling AMD will have to drop the 5700/XT price quite soon (in a couple of months or so?), otherwise it won't sell.
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post #42 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:35 PM
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Looks OK so far but the pricing is as always what will decide, there are almost no bad products just badly priced ones. The prices on presentation slides do not mean much, prices in shops that you will pay do, for aftermarket cards with proper cooling since they again decided to use a stupid blower suitable for 100W not 200W+.
Another problem is that this performance level has been available a while and many people already have 1070-1080 = Vega56-64 or even 2070.
Hard to "upgrade" to 5700XT when one already has something close to it for a while now.

I'm all for the lower latency as long as it works flawlessly, why is it an on/off toggle? Beats me, maybe later we will learn what kind of trickery it is and what some disadvantage may be hiding in there. If it was flawless I bet it would be always ON. Hopefully it can be used always on without any issues.

Fine sharpening, contrast aware, aka probably a shader injection at the end of rendering aka better ReShade fine sharpening right in GPU driver, decent feature I think especially considering just how blurry often modern games are with their subpar AA methods especially temporal ones or god forbid FXAA. You don't want to see the horrendous blur in ACC and how tragic it's AAs are. On top of adding sharpening it would be nice if they added an option to add a very good very fast AA, so one can turn it off in games that implement some poor AA and use the better one from GPU driver instead. Of course AA being far more tricky to do right this is unlikely to happen, still they could at least offer it to developers so they are not using only the default terrible FXAA, TAA of Unreal etc. A proper high quality open source AA that anyone can use.

AMD probably launches barely available with high prices, aftermarket cards delayed for months and when those arrive Nvidia will have a price drop or refresh of their own cards at the same time to undercut AMD. Sure AMD may have a cheaper die to manufacture and better ability to go down in price but they also have to be willing to do so, look how long it took them to drop Vegas to sensible pricing.

RTX2070 vs RX5700XT... it will be interesting, sadly AMD will likely take a whole year to get aftermarket cards at competitive price to market as always. If someone starts hoarding the cards you can say goodbye to availability and prices altogether, all it takes is someone launching yet another scam coin to mine.

Latency reduction is probably the best feature I can't stand it how most modern games lag, USB game controllers, etc. Any latency reduction anywhere is very welcome.

Last edited by JackCY; 06-11-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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post #43 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:44 PM
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I'm definitely with you on the sharps bit... I have to have my ASUS ProArt sharp set @ 50%+ in most modern titles.

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post #44 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
and you can get a still warrantied used 1080ti for $500

i found it a much better choice over 2080, for the money. RTX is still a baby.
Yeah that is definitely the deal to be had if shopping in that price range. There are plenty out there with 2 years warranty still.

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post #45 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 04:29 PM
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Idk if i'll wait till 2021 as everyone suggest but the 5700 and 5700XT while a bit expensive admittedly i'll probably end up buying it. I mean if we're being honest i know the "AMD fine wine aging" thing is cheesy but it's kind of true. If they OC well it's a no brainer for me.

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post #46 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NightAntilli View Post
i always get a kick out these cost analyses that never include labor/assembly/shipping.

i guess they think that $30 steak on the menu is really a $30 piece of meat and never tip the server.

Remember the golden rule of statistics: A personal sample size of one is a sufficient basis upon which to draw universal conclusions.
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post #47 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Blackops_2 View Post
Idk if i'll wait till 2021 as everyone suggest but the 5700 and 5700XT while a bit expensive admittedly i'll probably end up buying it. I mean if we're being honest i know the "AMD fine wine aging" thing is cheesy but it's kind of true. If they OC well it's a no brainer for me.
According to recent reviews the fine wine thing didn't really stand with recent AMD cards. Hopefully prices come down a bit with some competition. I haven't played with AMD in a while and would be stoked on some "2060ti" performance for closer to $300.

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post #48 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 05:11 PM
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Design? Paid for by Sony and M$.
Parts + manufacturing costs sure ain't that high and we see this all the time when years down the line GPUs drop prices dramatically when they need to. Vega56 expensive to manufacture, HBM2, yada yada, what does it now cost? Yeah same as RX 480 did before = a lot less than what it sold for 1st year.

Navi 5700 line is replacing Polaris yet it costs same as Vega did and same as competing products do = near zero change of performance/price = value. If Ryzen 1700-1800x sold for $1000+ because that's the norm = no improvement in value, how popular would they be? Not at all, not one freakin' bit. The same is going on with AMD GPUs pretty much since 5870, they just threw it all away, value matching Nvidia 1 year later at best. They gotta get aggressive with value of their GPUs if they ever want market share again or for anyone at all to buy their GPUs really. It is very clear AMD focuses on custom designs and servers, leaving desktop even mobile take scraps from repurposed products.

As far as competing with Nvidia moving forward goes... they threw the towel in a while ago, sold off their people to Intel to battle from there.

Great tech in GPUs but value is poor.

The rising prices of GPUs and value going to hell has been documented before per each generation, it goes a long long way back, it's not just RTX20 series being outrageous, it has started long ago in jumps. All the mining recently only made it so much worse.
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post #49 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by crazycuz2k View Post
It's a step in the right direction but AMD is still a generation or two behind Nvidia. I'll continue to support AMD but we're kidding ourselves if we think that Navi is better than Nvidia's RTX lineup.
From a purely technical standpoint, at the same performance targets: Nvidia runs more efficient, cooler, quieter, cheaper to make, and at higher margins.
The best thing about this release is that it puts a little "pressure" on Nvidia to lower their prices to cut in some of their margins on the 2060/2070, but until we see the 5500/5600 series, the 1660/Ti's will continue to sell which is where the real money is made.
The 5700 likely has the same perf/watt as the RTX 2060. Yeah it is a smaller node, but who cares? You can't see the node while you're playing. It's the end result that matters.

Cooler, quieter....? Define cooler. If you mean a lower temperature, that's more dependent on the cooling capacity than anything else. There aren't many cards out there that run cooler and quieter than the Sapphire Nitro+ cards, despite the additional power consumption of AMD's GPUs.

Cheaper to make is... debatable regarding Navi. It is only a 251 mm2 chip, compared to 445 mm2 of the RTX 2070/2060. It also dropped HBM, which added a lot to the cost of the Vega cards. The margins are tied to this, and at this point, AMD likely has better margins on Navi than nVidia has on their RTX cards, bar the 2080 Ti.

We need to see things for what they are, not for what we are used to seeing.
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post #50 of 313 (permalink) Old 06-11-2019, 05:18 PM
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the cost of manufacturing can go down but not the cost of labor, unless you change/move the workforce and its better to sell at a loss than not at all.

E:
a buddy of mine owns a ware house. i guess the electric, gas, water, sewerage and property tax all gets paid by magic.

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Last edited by looniam; 06-11-2019 at 05:31 PM.
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