[TomsHW]AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[TomsHW]AMD Files Patent for Hybrid Ray Tracing Solution

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-02-2019, 03:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
increasing texture is directly related to how big the textures are being rendered, and how complex they are.
And that performance won't make huge leaps any time soon, as the technology is old and while they are trying to improve it with every iteration (more rendering cores, faster cores, and more memory), lighting also makes a big part of the visual aid of a scene, not just textures.
It adds more realism through shadows and reflections that aren't just texture based.
Textures alone doesn't make an environment great.
Aliased textures are way easier to notice than mediocre lighting. “Flat Lighting” is still a common natural lighting condition, you don’t need top of the line lighting to be convincing (this is why I hate SSAO so much, half of the time modern lighting techniques are implemented entirely wrong and break immersion more than fixing anything, and if they’re done right it’s often so subtle I can barely tell if I turn them off. 99% of the time Lighting is the first thing to be set to “Low” when I’m optimizing game settings).
Aliasing on all your textures is a constant and abrupt reminder that the world is fake. Good texturing has always been one of the most impressive aspects of top tier graphics.

As long as your environments are static enough you can bake in any effect people want out of Ray Tracing, that’s why Minecraft is one of the better demonstrations of Ray Tracing, if the environment weren’t so dynamic then there would no practical benefit to using Ray Tracing, and even then they could do a very convincing approximation with older techniques.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 12:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
All this effort being spent on ray tracing is sort of frustrating. I don't feel like lighting has been the weak point in game visuals for a while. If all this effort was being put towards making textures amazing to look at and and perform even better then I could understand the reasoning.

It feels like they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.
Easily marketable strawman for the masses. Offering awesome "new technology features" that actually don't enhance the user experience and only warrants a higher price tag.
Pretty soon we'll be buying DX13 graphics cards.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 05:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
Aliased textures are way easier to notice than mediocre lighting. “Flat Lighting” is still a common natural lighting condition, you don’t need top of the line lighting to be convincing (this is why I hate SSAO so much, half of the time modern lighting techniques are implemented entirely wrong and break immersion more than fixing anything, and if they’re done right it’s often so subtle I can barely tell if I turn them off. 99% of the time Lighting is the first thing to be set to “Low” when I’m optimizing game settings).
Aliasing on all your textures is a constant and abrupt reminder that the world is fake. Good texturing has always been one of the most impressive aspects of top tier graphics.

As long as your environments are static enough you can bake in any effect people want out of Ray Tracing, that’s why Minecraft is one of the better demonstrations of Ray Tracing, if the environment weren’t so dynamic then there would no practical benefit to using Ray Tracing, and even then they could do a very convincing approximation with older techniques.

Agreed. I notice bad AA in all my games but dunno if I'd even notice ray tracing, especially since I will not be buying it in the forseeable future with prices the way they are.

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 05:36 AM
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So this means Dedicated hardware + GPU shader+CPU x86 (a.k.a software).

I can see not even AMD jumping on this, Intel too. We have excessive x86 performance headroom now thanks to CPU core wars. I will be very surprise Intel/AMD do not take this opportunity to push more x86 usage

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Clocknut View Post
So this means Dedicated hardware + GPU shader+CPU x86 (a.k.a software).

I can see not even AMD jumping on this, Intel too. We have excessive x86 performance headroom now thanks to CPU core wars. I will be very surprise Intel/AMD do not take this opportunity to push more x86 usage
Using cpu cores to do what is too specialized a workload to efficiently be done on general purpose gpu cores would be a tremendous waste and net terrible performance. Would be like using a Threadripper to mine bitcoins. You need a tremendous amount of whatever-ops for raytracing and a cpu is only good for a couple.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 10:05 PM
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I think ray tracing will take some time to mature, both the hardware and software. Maybe 10 years from now you just set the framerate you want, and you get it, with higher framerates having fewer rays traced per frame. Technically this can already be done, just with really poor quality.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 11:02 PM
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Generally speaking we will get whatever works best and eventually all the manufacturers will fall in line.

As a case in point, the Intel 64 bit implementation on the current X86-64 Intel processors is basically AMD64 with a few minuscule differences. Intel gave up flogging a dead horse with its own Intel64 implementation when the last Titanium processor was released back in 2017 .
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 11:47 PM
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It was not Intel Titanium but Intel Unobtainium.

I would rather have no AA and tracing, it is very obvious to me when reflections and shadows are faked. Some games are tolerable with the design/style approach they take along with level design but sometimes they try too much to cram in things that are very hard to fake correctly and it ends up looking odd and wrong.


Is a good comparison of what is used now and to be released.

Last edited by JackCY; 07-03-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 08:50 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
So not as good as dedicated Tensor Cores or whatever, but pretty close without having to waste a ton of die space on hardware that's useless 75% of the time.

but I don't really know for sure, too complex for me to understand.
Maybe not as "good" in raw performance in one area, but much better in a butt load of other areas.

swah

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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 02:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Aemonn View Post
The benefit in ray tracing is that you don't need to spend time creating custom shaders to get the exact look you're going for. The end result (after the many years it will take for the entire industry to adapt) would be less time making things look pretty and more time designing fun and engaging games, or coming up with more visually unique titles--since a big chunk of the "make it look pretty" is done already.

At least that's my take on it. We're still like 5 years away from knowing for sure. I totally agree with your frustration. Just trying to find the silver lining and identify long term gains.
For one thing it looks better than anything you'd achieve with traditional shaders, you can also get actual reflections and dynamic lighting that doesn't require excessive effort to setup a scene. That means you can have full destructible environments with lighting that actually adapts to changes in the environment (e.g. blowing a hole in the wall illuminating a room, without it being a scripted event).

Imagine playing a game like counterstrike, having a shootout in a dark enclosed space and by the end of the fight the area is relatively well lit with light streaming in through all the bullet holes on the side facing the sun (or other external light sources).

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