[AnandTech] Toshiba & WD NAND Production Hit By Power Outage: 6 Exabytes Lost - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[AnandTech] Toshiba & WD NAND Production Hit By Power Outage: 6 Exabytes Lost

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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 07:52 AM
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Sure they likely could of spent money and prevented this mishap but as this type of event is super rare it’s much cheaper save the money and not build the protections and let insurance cover any losses.

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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 07:55 AM
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Wow, these companies never thought that blackouts can happen and don't have backup generators or something?

I guess they don't want to try collusion and they've already tapped the fire and flooding excuses, so why not a power outage, yes they'll buy that right?

Hey Toshiba, not to worry, you're being screwed by Nvidia and AMD right now not a power outage as more and more people are sitting on their 5 year old PCs and have no desire to upgrade since the perception is that they're being fleeced. You'll always have the CIA though.

Now you don't want to add to that perception, do you?

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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 09:35 AM
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They screwed up something if a 13 minute power outage lost 45 days worth of production. Toshiba and WD should have to suffer from this mistake but instead of their competition making them suffer, they will probably join in on the price increase party.

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 10:18 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shawnb99 View Post
Sure they likely could of spent money and prevented this mishap but as this type of event is super rare it’s much cheaper save the money and not build the protections and let insurance cover any losses.
i suppose. I guess i'm just a silly American. Every large building I've ever worked at has had some sorta backup generator to prevent cost inflicting damages during freak instances of stuff.

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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 11:11 AM
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I interned at a small niche manufacturing firm and even they had onsite generators and we would continue welding when grid power was out. Fuel was much cheaper than the cost of lost production time.

In this case though it almost seems like they stand to profit more from the shutdown than they would have from normal production, what with increased prices of product on top of an insurance payout.


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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
i suppose. I guess i'm just a silly American. Every large building I've ever worked at has had some sorta backup generator to prevent cost inflicting damages during freak instances of stuff.
Have you worked anywhere that pulled 60MW? That is pretty high for any generator system. That is not a generator, that is a power plant. Most labs I have worked in have battery backup for a few minutes but not for more than 10. They also only power select outlets (the orange ones) for important instruments and everything else goes down, so they only need a few megawatts of backup for the entire campus.

Except India, they had something bigger since the power is so flakey there. In Japan I probably wouldn't put a 300 million dollar long term backup power system in place either. It probably would not turn on outside of testing. Of course probably is not a sure thing.
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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 12:58 PM
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When I worked at the airport in the traffic ops center we wouldn't even notice power outages, they had some redundancy to the point where it wouldn't even skip a beat, no flickering/things shutting off momentarily and then coming back on. You'd find out when you step outside during lunch break and notice that the entire city is black yet it's business as usual everything running full tilt at the airport, or I wouldn't even know and hear about it on the way home over the radio.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SystemTech View Post
Ok im sorry for the ignorance, but :

1. how can a 13 minute outage effect a month and a half's supply? Why is production partially halted? Sure they would lose the wafers in production at that point in time, but would you not just reset everything, start a new wafer and all is back to normal?

2. If the fab's are that sensitive to a power outage, would you not have redundant power supplies. Generators/Batteries etc?

Just find this really odd.

Not only do they have redundant supply, generators, possibly some batteries, but larger plants have their own power generation means beyond the former. Typically they are a small power plant of their own that are coal fired, natural gas, hydro, or in some rarer cases wood fired! Although, I admit the wood fired power plants are likely not in use outside the timber industry.

The entire scenario being presented here doesn't pass the smell test. A 13 minute power outage should not impact 1.5 months worth of output, that is absolute insanity.

EDIT:

I will point out this is the behavior seen with monopolies and oligopolies. Either flat out lying about output means or neglecting safety and back-ups entirely because there is no risk to them in the behavior.
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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 04:29 PM
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I'm still waiting for 2TB Nvme drives to come down in price and the next generation of NVME drives that make an actual difference in running windows, software and games.
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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by SystemTech View Post
Ok im sorry for the ignorance, but :

1. how can a 13 minute outage effect a month and a half's supply? Why is production partially halted? Sure they would lose the wafers in production at that point in time, but would you not just reset everything, start a new wafer and all is back to normal?

2. If the fab's are that sensitive to a power outage, would you not have redundant power supplies. Generators/Batteries etc?

Just find this really odd.
I've read about this outage some time ago and I don't get it either.

Where I'm from we get outages for any reason, it's sunny, it's hot, it's nice calm weather too nice a day, it's raining, it's snowing, it's freezing, it's windy, any freakin' reason and they flip the power off and on, sometimes 10 min sometimes 10 hours.

Wafers take a long time to produce, months. I think CPUs are made in quarterly batches. Why don't they resume after 13min? Yeah... "politics", holding prices high, oligopoly. Surely they must have batteries and backup generators to keep essential critical parts of the fab running even if they can't probably power the whole thing if they don't have a power plant nearby, though for 13min? I don't see why they would not be able to. Or why not get two connections of electricity if they have some gigantic fab and that can't go offline or bloody hell build it next to a power plant huh? So after 13min products went bad and they have to clean the whole place up, discard everything that's not usable anymore and start over.

I don't know, imagine in 10 years, making one batch will not take 3 months but 12 months and oh no there was a power outage that year, sorry everyone no products for you next year! This is what they are trying to get to really.

As always these memory chips corporations in oligopolies are trying to find any "legal" reason/excuse to fix prices high, reduce production to increase profit by getting prices to sky rocket from a shortage.
Goes on almost every year with memory chips used for any purpose.
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