[The Register] AMD agrees to cough up $35-a-chip payout over eight-core Bulldozer advertising fiasco - Page 16 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[The Register] AMD agrees to cough up $35-a-chip payout over eight-core Bulldozer advertising fiasco

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post #151 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 12:27 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
I didn't say anything about actual performance. As an early adopter to push multi-threaded development....you know like RTX is now?
Bulldozer brought 8C/8T to a very specific price bracket. That's the absolute extent of the progress you can attribute to the 8350. This, though, has no bearing on the performance deficit - that is the result of a pretty crap architecture.

RTX brought raytracing to games in real time in such a manner whereby it's easier for developers to implement it and start dipping their toes and get acquainted with this new paradigm. The performance deficit here is typical growing pains of demanding technology - very unlike the inadequacy of Bulldozer.

This kind of comment is pretty surprising to me when we consider everything that's happened. Even when AMD had nothing else to fight Intel with, we all sort of kind of collectively agreed that Bulldozer was very underwhelming. Now that AMD has actually surpassed and pressured the competition with Ryzen, you're bringing up how "game changing" the 8350 was? Really?!

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post #152 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 03:41 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
You're skipping over the 5960x that was released in 2014 that the 2017 chip still competed with.

Well, yes, and the 6950X, but neither moved things forward too much in terms of pricing (especially the 6950X, which allowed the 6900K to remain at the $1k price point)). At least with the Intel hexacores you had a ~$500 option since the beginning (with the Intel i7-970), and you only got an eight core CPU from Intel for that much after AMD introduced Ryzen. But yes, technically you're right.

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post #153 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 03:57 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post
I didn't say anything about actual performance. As an early adopter to push multi-threaded development....you know like RTX is now?

Yup, that's why Intel had 6/8 core "prosumer" CPUs and on the market a year before the FX series was even announced and 8 core Xeons a year earlier

Xeon and Opteron pushed multi-threaded development, not the FX series.

The only gaming changing CPU from AMD released in the last 10 years is the Ryzen series.

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post #154 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 06:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Bulldozer brought 8C/8T to a very specific price bracket. That's the absolute extent of the progress you can attribute to the 8350. This, though, has no bearing on the performance deficit - that is the result of a pretty crap architecture.

RTX brought raytracing to games in real time in such a manner whereby it's easier for developers to implement it and start dipping their toes and get acquainted with this new paradigm. The performance deficit here is typical growing pains of demanding technology - very unlike the inadequacy of Bulldozer.

This kind of comment is pretty surprising to me when we consider everything that's happened. Even when AMD had nothing else to fight Intel with, we all sort of kind of collectively agreed that Bulldozer was very underwhelming. Now that AMD has actually surpassed and pressured the competition with Ryzen, you're bringing up how "game changing" the 8350 was? Really?!
Broke a few frequency world records as well if I recall correctly.

RTX brought an massively inadequate "solution" that once again is locked behind a proprietary blackbox so that no one else could see it making all that dev time useless, and is in fact actively harmful to industry progress (like most of nVidia's "solutions"), going forward. Don't praise it as if it is somehow better for us than Bulldozer was.

Quote: Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
Yup, that's why Intel had 6/8 core "prosumer" CPUs and on the market a year before the FX series was even announced and 8 core Xeons a year earlier

Xeon and Opteron pushed multi-threaded development, not the FX series.

The only gaming changing CPU from AMD released in the last 10 years is the Ryzen series.
I would argue that Kabini should be on that list for providing a <$50 chip that can game at all without a GPU, as well as being an SoC landmark. This was in 2013, and Intel had not figured out how to make an iGPU that could even get colors correct yet.

It was also what won AMD's contracts with XBox and PS4, and should allow near perfect backwards compatibility with the next generation for the first time in a long time, excluding GC/Wii which was nearly the same hardware anyway.

Also where are you finding this magical prosumer (HEDT) 8-core chip before the 5960X in 2014 again? Bulldozer was 2011. Xeons has 10-cores all the way back to Westmere, but X79 sure didn't.

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post #155 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Broke a few frequency world records as well if I recall correctly.

RTX brought an massively inadequate "solution" that once again is locked behind a proprietary blackbox so that no one else could see it making all that dev time useless, and is in fact actively harmful to industry progress (like most of nVidia's "solutions"), going forward. Don't praise it as if it is somehow better for us than Bulldozer was.



I would argue that Kabini should be on that list for providing a <$50 chip that can game at all without a GPU, as well as being an SoC landmark. This was in 2013, and Intel had not figured out how to make an iGPU that could even get colors correct yet.

It was also what won AMD's contracts with XBox and PS4, and should allow near perfect backwards compatibility with the next generation for the first time in a long time, excluding GC/Wii which was nearly the same hardware anyway.

Also where are you finding this magical prosumer (HEDT) 8-core chip before the 5960X in 2014 again? Bulldozer was 2011. Xeons has 10-cores all the way back to Westmere, but X79 sure didn't.
Also held nearly all the top ram frequency records from not long after bulldozer came out until at least when Haswell was introduced (4 years?).
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post #156 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 11:00 AM
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old mcdonald had a bulldozer
E-I-E-I-O
with a niche niche here and a niche niche there
here a niche, there a niche, everywhere a niche niche
old mcdonald had a bulldozer
E-I-E-I-O




E:
changed wording to be a little less aggressive. but while i'm at it, at the end of the day, both parties are agreeing that the price was more inline with what a $185-$210 i5-2400/PIIx6 delivered; performance is in the lawsuit though headlines overlook that. considering those chips swapped blows in everyday usage, i have no idea what the problem is.

in the meantime the goal posts have moved so much, they disappeared.

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post #157 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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So did Celerons back in the day for frequency, it's a meaningless feat to real world anything.


Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
RTX brought an massively inadequate "solution" that once again is locked behind a proprietary blackbox so that no one else could see it making all that dev time useless, and is in fact actively harmful to industry progress (like most of nVidia's "solutions"), going forward. Don't praise it as if it is somehow better for us than Bulldozer was.
Ah yes, hardware accelerated Ray Tracing is awful! It just makes it so much easier for game devs to make beautifully lit environments if done properly. It's not like 90% of photography and cinematography is about lightning. I've never been a fan of things looking good if they come from the leatherjacketman company.


Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
I would argue that Kabini should be on that list for providing a <$50 chip that can game at all without a GPU, as well as being an SoC landmark. This was in 2013, and Intel had not figured out how to make an iGPU that could even get colors correct yet.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-....125593.0.html





Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
It was also what won AMD's contracts with XBox and PS4, and should allow near perfect backwards compatibility with the next generation for the first time in a long time, excluding GC/Wii which was nearly the same hardware anyway.
https://www.quora.com/Can-you-play-PS1-games-on-PS2
https://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/ps2_faq_compatibility


Early PS3 supported PS2 games as well. It's nothing really to do with it being AMD hardware, that was a very nice reach.


Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Also where are you finding this magical prosumer (HEDT) 8-core chip before the 5960X in 2014 again? Bulldozer was 2011. Xeons has 10-cores all the way back to Westmere, but X79 sure didn't.
Being the first doesn't make it good, it's only a marketing timing dependent gimmick.

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post #158 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 01:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
RTX brought an massively inadequate "solution" that once again is locked behind a proprietary blackbox so that no one else could see it making all that dev time useless, and is in fact actively harmful to industry progress (like most of nVidia's "solutions"), going forward. Don't praise it as if it is somehow better for us than Bulldozer was.
nVidia, as a company, are, unsurprisingly, trying to profit as much as they can from their investment. But you cannot legitimately make the argument that RTX isn't helping the developers get acquainted with the technology and trying efficient workarounds for problems regarding effect and efficiency. It's all based on DxR, so it's not like the code sits in a vacuum with no practical benefit for the future.

It's the same argument over and over again: RTX sucks because it's not "good enough"; as if NOTHING AT ALL were any better.

Tell you what, though, as underwhelming as RT cores might be, their impact is more meaningful than Bulldozer OC records.

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post #159 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 01:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
nVidia, as a company, are, unsurprisingly, trying to profit as much as they can from their investment. But you cannot legitimately make the argument that RTX isn't helping the developers get acquainted with the technology and trying efficient workarounds for problems regarding effect and efficiency. It's all based on DxR, so it's not like the code sits in a vacuum with no practical benefit for the future.

It's the same argument over and over again: RTX sucks because it's not "good enough"; as if NOTHING AT ALL were any better.

Tell you what, though, as underwhelming as RT cores might be, their impact is more meaningful than Bulldozer OC records.
I have an RTX 2080 - I think I'd call it disappointing at half the price.
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post #160 of 166 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 01:57 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
I have an RTX 2080 - I think I'd call it disappointing at half the price.
Then you'd call every single card on the market right now disappointing.

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