[TechPowerUp] [Updated] Der8auer: Only Small Percentage of 3rd Gen Ryzen CPUs Hit Their Advertised Speeds - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[TechPowerUp] [Updated] Der8auer: Only Small Percentage of 3rd Gen Ryzen CPUs Hit Their Advertised Speeds

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post #21 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Imouto View Post
By missing the target single core boost by 2~3%?

You should read out loud what you type because it is honestly hilarious.

I meant legally speaking. From what it seems in the US there are plenty of people willing to file class action lawsuits for all sorts of things, including false advertising. Hence why I also mentioned in the post before the 5 Ghz in the Ryzen Pro video that they've since set to private after articles came out pointing it out. And of course, this is all following the recent news of them settling the Bulldozer 'core' case.

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post #22 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by deepor View Post
There was a similar problem with Bulldozer that was just about how things were worded in their specs, and AMD was sued for that. AMD lost that Bulldozer lawsuit recently. They'll be sued again for this new problem, and they'll lose again.

This whole new problem was completely avoidable. It's just about words. They should have just put safe numbers into the specs that are a bunch of 100MHz below of what the average CPU can boost.

The actual CPUs are great, they are the best choice for most use-cases. There really was no reason for them to artificially create this problem for themselves.
Quote: Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post
I meant legally speaking. From what it seems in the US there are plenty of people willing to file class action lawsuits for all sorts of things, including false advertising. Hence why I also mentioned in the post before the 5 Ghz in the Ryzen Pro video that they've since set to private after articles came out pointing it out. And of course, this is all following the recent news of them settling the Bulldozer 'core' case.
I this ends up in a class action lawsuit it will be fun seeing how people parade for forensics on their PCs.

What if a firmware update fixes it? What if it is a Windows problem? What if it is a software problem?

I don't know. It seems like a rough launch problem to me. A petty one to boot.

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Last edited by Imouto; 09-02-2019 at 04:59 PM.
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post #23 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 05:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by deepor View Post
There was a similar problem with Bulldozer that was just about how things were worded in their specs, and AMD was sued for that. AMD lost that Bulldozer lawsuit recently. They'll be sued again for this new problem, and they'll lose again.

This whole new problem was completely avoidable. It's just about words. They should have just put safe numbers into the specs that are a bunch of 100MHz below of what the average CPU can boost.

The actual CPUs are great, they are the best choice for most use-cases. There really was no reason for them to artificially create this problem for themselves.
A settlement is not a loss. It is a statement that they would like to pay their way out of the fight rather than continue it. It's the "I'm going to pay you $100 to -OCN bad word- off" meme.

The being said, this one is not as ambiguous. AMD needs to be very careful, because they gave actual hard numbers. While using software to poll clocks in "real" time is useless, that does not make it impossible to check.

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post #24 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 08:44 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Imouto View Post
I this ends up in a class action lawsuit it will be fun seeing how people parade for forensics on their PCs.

What if a firmware update fixes it? What if it is a Windows problem? What if it is a software problem?

I don't know. It seems like a rough launch problem to me. A petty one to boot.
While I agree with you, I think it best for any business to reduce opportunity for negative publicity. AMD could have reduced the advertised numbers and let the reviews speak ONLY of the great performance. I hope these chips are capable or their advertised speeds....my 3700x has hit 4.4 without pbo or manual oc.

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post #25 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 12:13 AM
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With the amount here that seem to be fine with this wee should prolly change the forum name to underclock.net?


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post #26 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 12:25 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darren9 View Post
With the amount here that seem to be fine with this wee should prolly change the forum name to underclock.net?
Ever since some of us moved from Agesa 1002 (read some boards dont even have this) and cant see the ad boost, we have resorted to an all core oc. Before, at stock, only two cores on my 3600 see 4200MHz. Now, luckily, i can set 4300MHz to bench. I use 4200 all core for everyday use.

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post #27 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 12:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
early AGESA allowed advertised boost clocks, later AGESA doesn't ... so blame AMD? don't really follow.

My 9900K is advertised as a "5.0 boost" CPU but nothing ever will let it boost to 5.0 since nothing loads one core only. The only time it hits 5.0 on any core is for milliseconds while basically idle.
I've not got a 3rd gen Ryzen yet (likely when the 3950X is released) but similar tale on one work machine with a 9900K. Running Linux so it's not just a Windows thing... I think I've seen it hit 5GHz once. I've never seen it hit 5GHz on any AVX-type workload. It never hits its maximum all-core boost, either (being 4.7GHz officially, I see 4.5-4.6 under sustained all-core load) with a Noctua D15S and a pair of Noctua fans on it in a room maintained at 20*C ambient. A 2700X with the same cooler on (in the same room) spends basically its whole life at 4.2-4.25GHz, all cores loaded, which is above quoted max all-core boost clock. That will be due to whatever Asus set as defaults in the X470 PRIME BIOS, because I've gone in their once, to set the boot disk and remove the BIOS splash screen.

Advertising by boost clocks does seem a little underhanded, considering that (for both AMD and Intel) it will be highly dependent on what cooler people are using. If no CPUs were hitting their advertised boost clocks, I'd be agreeing with people criticising AMD, but given the vast array of potential coolers and ambient conditions (not to mention tweaks on a per-model of motherboard or BIOS basis from the different manufacturers, this seems like a bit of a movable target. Someone with a large cooler living in a cold area will get much better results than someone with the stock cooler living in a hot and/or humid area.

Hm. When I get a 3rd gen, I'll take the box into work and hammer it for a while to see what it does.


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post #28 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 12:55 AM
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Hm.

When I purchased my Threadripper 1900X i expected it to work perfectly on stock settings. In reality, CPU was getting highest frequencies on low load/idle, while on high load scenarios frequencies continually dropped. Most of time the CPU was overvolted, producing incredible heat and drawing a lot of watts for no good reason...

My solution was to set it to fixed frequency of 4000MHz on all cores, without any boosts, and setting fixed voltage. What followed was set of stress tests to prove that system is rock-solid stable, while i tuned stats of the system until there were no trouble at all.


I do not expect that the behavior of the Ryzen cores changed in any way, so when they advertised 4,7ghz and it would be achievable only on idle scenarios, i really dont see any real impact on performance.

But to be more specific... What is the frequency which is being upper limit?

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post #29 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 01:03 AM
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My 3900x has gone as far as 4.75Ghz single core, with PBO and auto boost on full water. I'm not complaining, it destroys any task it comes past.

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post #30 of 88 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 01:43 AM
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This is one of many reasons why I returned the pre-built 3700x I bought roughly 2 months ago. Unsafe voltage requirements yet the chips still don't reach advertised out-of-the-box speeds. crappy chips imo. Ended up going to intel/nvidia and spending double on my dream system. Well worth it. AMD is definitely going to get sued over this, justifiably so. If I had to guess what their business strategy is, I wouldn't be surprised if it is "Do whatever we have to do to get money now, pay out for lawsuits later". They just need to keep getting sued until they learn a lesson. Glad i'm not an investor because that's a crappy approach to managing a brand.
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