[Tom's Hardware] Intel Announces Optane DIMMs for Workstations, SSD 665P With 96-Layer QLC, Roadmap - Page 4 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Tom's Hardware] Intel Announces Optane DIMMs for Workstations, SSD 665P With 96-Layer QLC, Roadmap

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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 05:51 PM
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Several years ago, we toyed with the idea of doing a fresh OS install directly to DRAM, by adding a "Format RAM" option to a BIOS.
Today, I appended the following Comment at that ExtremeTech article:

DDR4-2666 x 8 ~= 21,328 MB/second (raw bandwidth)

Compare a PCIe 4.0 "4x4" add-in card e.g. upgraded ASRock Ultra Quad M.2 Card:
I calculate:

16G / 8.125 x 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes x 4 Gen4 NVMe M.2 ~= 31,507 MB/second (raw bandwidth)

As such, instead of formatting Optane DIMMs for a fresh OS install,
PCIe 4.0 offers superior raw bandwidth for an OS installed on such a "4x4" card.

And, according to ASRock's published documentation, multiple Ultra Quad M.2 cards can be installed in a single motherboard.

Actual performance then depends a lot on the M.2 drives installed on such a card.

Also, Gen4 M.2s are expected to become more plentiful in the next few months,
and the competition among same should help drive prices down.

Thus, it should be easy to compare Gen4 M.2 Optanes with other Gen4 M.2 drives
in a "4x4" add-in card e.g. if latency is a major consideration.

p.s. I haven't looked: has Intel announced a Gen4 M.2 Optane yet?

At Newegg today, only Corsair, Gigabyte and XPG are selling Gen4 M.2s:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=PCIe+4...82%20601342076
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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 06:00 PM
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Gigabyte have announced a Gen4 "4x4" add-in card:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14440...cie-addin-card

"GIGABYTE the first company we’ve seen with a four-way design for PCIe 4.0."
...
"When asked, GIGABYTE said that this expansion card is aimed at AMD machines, mostly because of a lack of proper feature support on Intel systems."


At Gigabyte's website, see:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State...AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

Last edited by MRFS; 10-01-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MRFS View Post
Several years ago, we toyed with the idea of doing a fresh OS install directly to DRAM, by adding a "Format RAM" option to a BIOS.
Today, I appended the following Comment at that ExtremeTech article:

DDR4-2666 x 8 ~= 21,328 MB/second (raw bandwidth)

Compare a PCIe 4.0 "4x4" add-in card e.g. upgraded ASRock Ultra Quad M.2 Card:
I calculate:

16G / 8.125 x 4 PCIe 4.0 lanes x 4 Gen4 NVMe M.2 ~= 31,507 MB/second (raw bandwidth)

As such, instead of formatting Optane DIMMs for a fresh OS install,
PCIe 4.0 offers superior raw bandwidth for an OS installed on such a "4x4" card.

And, according to ASRock's published documentation, multiple Ultra Quad M.2 cards can be installed in a single motherboard.

Actual performance then depends a lot on the M.2 drives installed on such a card.

Also, Gen4 M.2s are expected to become more plentiful in the next few months,
and the competition among same should help drive prices down.

Thus, it should be easy to compare Gen4 M.2 Optanes with other Gen4 M.2 drives
in a "4x4" add-in card e.g. if latency is a major consideration.

p.s. I haven't looked: has Intel announced a Gen4 M.2 Optane yet?

At Newegg today, only Corsair, Gigabyte and XPG are selling Gen4 M.2s:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=PCIe+4...82%20601342076
You know, if you raid0 3 old 7200rpm HDDs they will have more bandwidth than an 860 evo. You will pay less per GB of storage as well.
It doesn't mean they are faster.

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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 06:17 PM
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Our posts "passed in the mail"

Repeating, here's the Gigabyte product page for their Gen4 "4x4" add-in card:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State...AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

Performance will depend a lot on the M.2's chosen to populate that AIC,
and of course the RAID mode.

p.s. Yes, HDD speed is limited by the rate at which raw data
passes directly beneath the read/write heads e.g.
to maintain nearly equal recording densities,
innermost tracks are much slower than outermost tracks.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-01-2019, 11:38 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by MRFS View Post
p.s. Yes, HDD speed is limited by the rate at which raw data
passes directly beneath the read/write heads e.g.
to maintain nearly equal recording densities,
innermost tracks are much slower than outermost tracks.
I think the point is more about latency. Latency is much worse with the Gen4 4x4 add-in card compared to the DDR4 DIMMS. It is the same with mechanical hard drives compared to an 860 evo. Enough mechanical hard drives will provide more sequential bandwidth but their latency is always bad. Nothing to do with innermost tracks or anything, just the nature of the technologies. For latency DRAM > 3D Xpoint > NAND > spinning metal oxides. Multiplexing multiple of any of these will improve the bandwidth but not the latency.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 10-31-2019, 11:35 AM
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The killer app for Optane DIMMs is a gigantic hash table, where random access speed to small records is what matters.
If you know how to write the code, it's possible to get single-digit microsecond access times to a hash table of billions of records stored on an Optane DIMM set.
There is no way to do that with block devices, no matter how fast they are.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-01-2019, 09:48 AM
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in 2006 we were partitioning RAM off to make RAM Disks when we had more RAM than our x86 OS could handle and now in 2019 we're shoving storage into RAM slots.

progress?

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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
in 2006 we were partitioning RAM off to make RAM Disks when we had more RAM than our x86 OS could handle and now in 2019 we're shoving storage into RAM slots.

progress?
a fair bit of both forwards and backwards.
storage speeds had become fast enough so you can trade-off sustained throughput for massive capacities.

at some point maybe we wouldn't even need RAM sticks at all, the OS would manage it directly within the storage and cache critical data to it's on package cache.

trolling an adult is very dangerous, don't try it at home nor at work. you don't want to play tag with a rabid man.

Last edited by epic1337; 11-02-2019 at 07:11 PM.
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 11-02-2019, 07:09 PM
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lol, linus just went down memory lane on that.

DDR1 sporting PCI-E cards for folks that still wanted to use their DDR1 after transitioning to DDR2.

R.I.P. Zawarudo, may you OC angels' wings in heaven.
If something appears too good to be true, it probably is.
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