[Tom's Hardware] AMD Dishes on Zen 3 and Zen 4 Architecture, Milan and Genoa Roadmap - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Tom's Hardware] AMD Dishes on Zen 3 and Zen 4 Architecture, Milan and Genoa Roadmap

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post #21 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
Yeah it seems that AMD finally broke through the wall of silly ideas that peaked with bulldozer and someone finally found something that could actually work.
Now if they can improve clocks as TSMC improve manufacturing, they will start to basically harvest intel's market.
I'm sure intel are starting to not just panic, but get internal meltdowns as they processing ability stagnate and bugs on top of bugs appear.
Seems like Jim Keller and Intel have something big planned.

https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/1352...re-intel-cpus/

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post #22 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 08:33 PM
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Wonder if Lisa's boyfriend is italian since all this love for italian cities is new to me.....

8 core ccx would definitely help in gaming tasks (and productive/datacenter things to but....I just don't care), it will still be a AM4 process btw? Becasue since my next cpu will be a 8 core cpu I could skip the 3800X and jump on the new 8 core 4xxxx and be ok until complete climate breakdown....
Nope Lisa Su is happily married to a Taiwanese named Daniel Lin

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post #23 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
So Milan says it is Zen3 and still regular SMT. Pretty much guarantees right there that SMT4 rumors are false.
That pretty much also guarantees Matterhorn and Willowcove will kill Zen3.

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post #24 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 08:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
Seems like Jim Keller and Intel have something big planned.



https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/1352...re-intel-cpus/


Considering they can’t execute on die shrink, that’s about the only other option


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post #25 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 03:29 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Seronx View Post
That pretty much also guarantees Matterhorn and Willowcove will kill Zen3.
At the snail rate Intel is rolling out their new CPU, it will be Zen 4 or 5. when Willow Cove is release. Next Willow Cove is a process shrink node from Sunny Cove, so just incremental update in performance, by that time AMD Zen 5 might have already crush it.

2020 - Zen 3 / Comet & Rocket Lake (still stuck at the great old Skylake microarch)
2021 - Zen 4 / Sunny Cove (IPC gain)
2022 - Zen 5 / Willow Cove (process shrink)
2023 - Zen 6 / Golden Cove (IPC gain)
2024 - Zen 7 / Ocean Cove

Golden Cove will be the only next big step in IPC after Sunny Cove, and by then it will be Zen 6. So no, Intel will not crush AMD (or Zen 3) unless they decided to release Golden Cove Desktop chip next year.

In short you can stop dreaming.


Last edited by guttheslayer; 10-12-2019 at 03:40 AM.
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post #26 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 05:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
In short you can stop dreaming.
Renoir(Zen2) vs Tigerlake(Willowcove)
---(Zen3) vs Alderlake(Goldencove)
---(Zen4) vs Meteorlake(Oceancove)

Intel is ahead of normal client. They are only behind in servers, which Sapphire Rapids is a early 2021 product w/ WillowcoveX(Server-core). Intel is feint producing a lot of fake products, Cannonlake/Icelake, etc. Now you see it, now you don't: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...nnon-lake.html. The only volume cores are Willowcove/Goldencove(Tock-tick) and the VISC-Future(xPU ISA)-NextGenCore(tock-refresh-refresh-refresh-etc).


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post #27 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 09:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post
Now that it is a 8C CCX with clock speed improvement, do you think AMD will finally take the gaming crown from Intel for Zen 3? Even in the might of I9-9900KS?

They have more or less implied back in June that they will surpass Intel with Zen 3:


https://www.overclock.net/forum/225-...lan-genoa.html


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But for the removal of doubt, Genoa is the Zen 4 design. Here's an exclusive: the one after that is another Italian City. I know you're shocked. We always knew that having the regular cadence in the road map was extremely important, and so the strategy was to have Rome be a part that could further accentuate our throughput leadership, and to get rid of as many asterisks as possible in terms of single thread performance, memory latency, and so on. That was always the strategy. Then Milan was designed to further erase any asterisks that remain, so in thinking about it, in the original strategy, Milan was where we expected to be back to IPC (or better) parity across all workloads. That was the thought process to the strategy.

Even with Intel's road map delays, we have continued to execute within a quarter of when we said we were going to execute - we've always come out within one quarter of where we planned it 3 years ago. Milan is right on track as well, but Intel is not, and so the relative competitiveness of Rome is actually better than we had originally had planned. We're seeing tremendous excitement in our customer base around it, and I think that's really a function of it being more competitive, but it's also a function of the fact that our partners now believe us. Now AMD delivered the original part and it works, and it's good and it's quality, we can deploy it at scale. We told customers two years ago that we we're going to come out with Rome in the middle of 2019 and now we’re telling them that we’re going to come out with Milan at a certain point in time, and they believe us. That helps a lot that belief, that the proof points, the predictable execution are very important.



Last edited by tpi2007; 10-12-2019 at 09:28 PM.
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post #28 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-12-2019, 10:25 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post
They have more or less implied back in June that they will surpass Intel with Zen 3:


https://www.overclock.net/forum/225-...lan-genoa.html
Here's how I see it, chiplets are going to be smaller, perhaps 20-30% smaller.

IPC is 8-10%, SC performance as a whole, up to 15% on Zen 3.

These much smaller chiplets? Three on an AM4 CPU, 999$+.

If I were AMD, I would re-launch some Zen 2 (7nm) products as low-end SKUs, not including the expected Zen 2 APUs. Especially as 7nm should be a bit more free from Apples massive orders. That's not what people like myself want to hear, but it makes sense from a financial perspective!

I think a thousand-dollar 24-Core Zen3 AM4 CPU is exactly what AMD might be planning, they need to show investors they can really capitalize on market dominance.

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post #29 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 12:09 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Buris View Post
Here's how I see it, chiplets are going to be smaller, perhaps 20-30% smaller.

IPC is 8-10%, SC performance as a whole, up to 15% on Zen 3.

These much smaller chiplets? Three on an AM4 CPU, 999$+.

If I were AMD, I would re-launch some Zen 2 (7nm) products as low-end SKUs, not including the expected Zen 2 APUs. Especially as 7nm should be a bit more free from Apples massive orders. That's not what people like myself want to hear, but it makes sense from a financial perspective!

I think a thousand-dollar 24-Core Zen3 AM4 CPU is exactly what AMD might be planning, they need to show investors they can really capitalize on market dominance.

7nm+ won't deliver that much in terms of size reduction. It'll be "15% to 20% more density".

IPC uplift, going by the latest rumour, will be 8% and max clocks 200 Mhz extra compared to Zen 2.

From what AMD has been doing in the CPU space since 2017, I'd say that they will focus on cementing their position. The size reduction isn't enough to put any extra chiplets on the CPU's PCB, nor would it make market sense. Also, 24 cores being fed with dual channel DDR4 isn't a good match. Zen 4 in 2021 will be paired with DDR5, it's then that we can start thinking about that. That'll be on 6nm too most probably, which will help in terms of die size.

What AMD needs for Zen 3 is a Zen+ type of release in terms of stability and polish, getting the AGESA right from the start and a PCIe 4.0 motherboard line-up with a Southbridge that is made on a smaller node that doesn't need active cooling, and at the same time proclaim that they are now the overall performance winners, no 8 core 9900K or 10 core 10900K will be able to touch a Zen 3 based 16 core 4950X.

In my opinion Zen 3 will be even more important than Zen 2, it will be a tipping point.



Last edited by tpi2007; 10-13-2019 at 12:13 AM.
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post #30 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-13-2019, 01:24 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Seronx View Post
Renoir(Zen2) vs Tigerlake(Willowcove)
---(Zen3) vs Alderlake(Goldencove)
---(Zen4) vs Meteorlake(Oceancove)

Intel is ahead of normal client. They are only behind in servers, which Sapphire Rapids is a early 2021 product w/ WillowcoveX(Server-core). Intel is feint producing a lot of fake products, Cannonlake/Icelake, etc. Now you see it, now you don't: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...nnon-lake.html. The only volume cores are Willowcove/Goldencove(Tock-tick) and the VISC-Future(xPU ISA)-NextGenCore(tock-refresh-refresh-refresh-etc).
You are not comparing properly. Ice Lake U currently only wins Picasso (Zen+) by marginally, and Renoir will crush it when its release, which is only Zen 2 based. Only Tigerlake (Willow Cove) will overtake Renoir but by then Zen 3 will appear after with another full generational leap. So how will Zen 3 get crushed by Tigerlake / Willow Cove? Are you even making sense?

Also I am not sure why you even talking about laptop, but Intel is not ahead of AMD. And this is especially true for us, desktop user who uses mainstream / HEDT platform.


Last edited by guttheslayer; 10-13-2019 at 01:30 AM.
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