[PCGN] PS5’s SSD could spell doom for next-gen PC game ports - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[PCGN] PS5’s SSD could spell doom for next-gen PC game ports

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post #21 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 03:44 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Buris View Post
The standard PS4 has only GDDR5,
The PS4 Pro has both GDDR5 and DDR3,
The XBOX ONE has only DDR3 and On-chip ESRAM
The X has 12 GB GDDR5

Saying something like "Consoles only have RAM", makes no logical sense.

Consoles can use whatever type of memory a manufacturer wants, and in however much amount they feel comfortable.

We could very well see a system with 4GB HBM2+16GB DDR4, or any other wacky combination you can think of.

As a logical PC gamer, I love when consoles can innovate as much as possible. The weaker the Consoles, the weaker the PC's and the more lackluster our games become, not only in visuals but in what's actually possible for game developers to do! Better consoles means better games for everyone. period.



There has never been a game purely programmed for SSD's only. This generation will be the first time where this will become a reality. Just because the RAGE engine didn't or couldn't use multiple GPUs doesn't mean that it entirely rules out texture caching or Dual GPU setups using caching on an SSD. Very much a false-equivalency. Especially when you consider MCM's will not operate like SLI or CFX of olde.
i wasn't attempting to draw equiv, aside from the fact IDSoft IDtech mega texture engine ran pretty well, just it didn't work with 2x GPUs.

back on topic, like I said... this means only good thing for PC.

some of us still have SSDs older than this generation of consoles

one other thing -someone said $400 consoles. highly unlikely. more like $500-$600 for base model, but I do agree that they won't be using cutting edge SSDs. They'll just be cutting edge for console, SSDs. Someone will try to convince us that Sammy will load em up with 970s, but i doubt it.

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post #22 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 03:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
i wasn't attempting to draw equiv, aside from the fact IDSoft IDtech mega texture engine ran pretty well, just it didn't work with 2x GPUs.

back on topic, like I said... this means only good thing for PC.

some of us still have SSDs older than this generation of consoles

one other thing -someone said $400 consoles. highly unlikely. more like $500-$600 for base model, but I do agree that they won't be using cutting edge SSDs. They'll just be cutting edge for console, SSDs. Someone will try to convince us that Sammy will load em up with 970s, but i doubt it.
I wonder if they'll go for QLC base models, maybe in a 512 GB model, to keep prices down but upgrade to 1 TB (+?) TLC drives for the higher end version.

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post #23 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:11 PM
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that's my expectation.

it'll probably be something like how laptops work out. At least they've confirmed (well enough at least) that all models will be all SSD. At that point its just a sliding scale.

I expect 2 models, but won't be surprised if there are 3 in flux during the height of the cycle (and I don't mean like this time. I mean 3 SKUs being sold all at the exact same time)

QLC drives work fine in gaming applications. It's massive transfers where they quickly fail, even when heatsinked.

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post #24 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
that's my expectation.

it'll probably be something like how laptops work out. At least they've confirmed (well enough at least) that all models will be all SSD. At that point its just a sliding scale.

I expect 2 models, but won't be surprised if there are 3 in flux during the height of the cycle (and I don't mean like this time. I mean 3 SKUs being sold all at the exact same time)

QLC drives work fine in gaming applications. It's massive transfers where they quickly fail, even when heatsinked.
I'm guessing current Phison PCI-E 4.0 controllers. I'm also going to go out on a limb here and say that the "cartridge" leaks were true. I'm going to guess a TLC 512-1TB PCI-E 4.0 Phison controller SSD, and paired with that will be cheaper proprietary SSDs that will slot into the consoles. My guess is that the cheaper SSD (QLC, DRAM-less or maybe even flash) will load the downloaded/installed games onto the fast, internal NVME.

My guess is that 16-64GB of the NVME will be used for cache at all times while the OS's will take up anywhere from 8-16GB. If the rumors of the PS5 being able to hold save-states of multiple games, perhaps that cache will be more like 128GB.

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post #25 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 04:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Buris View Post
I guarantee you're wrong about that, unless you think 20FPS or MASSIVE texture pop-in is fine for you PC ports.

These next-generation consoles will be using NVME SSD's as a texture cache as well as a storage media. If you can recall how RAGE used "MegaTextures" (a single file that holds almost all textures in a given open-world scenario), you can essentially read off of a single file almost all textures a game will use, 4K performance is still paramount to using an SSD in a traditional system, but these aren't traditional systems... If you recall, RAGE had abyssmal texture pop-in on Video Cards of that era and still has quite a bit of Texture Pop-in today.

With that knowledge, I think it's clear to see PCs that do not have NVME SSDs will have their performance obliterated. You better hope they decide on having the Texture Cache option available on PCs rather than simply offloading that cache onto the GPU which would require 16GB+ VRAM.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-uH8vSeBY&

Am I in agreement that the title of the article is sensationalized? Yes.
So you are gonna get texture pop in if you try and push the texture quality/resolution higher than your VRAM can handle, especially if you are using a HDD.

Sounds exactly like the way games have been since forever.


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post #26 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 05:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
So you are gonna get texture pop in if you try and push the texture quality/resolution higher than your VRAM can handle, especially if you are using a HDD.

Sounds exactly like the way games have been since forever.
Except the amount of VRAM required will be astronomical if PC games aren't programmed for a cache system as well

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post #27 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 06:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Buris View Post
I guarantee you're wrong about that, unless you think 20FPS or MASSIVE texture pop-in is fine for you PC ports.

These next-generation consoles will be using NVME SSD's as a texture cache as well as a storage media. If you can recall how RAGE used "MegaTextures" (a single file that holds almost all textures in a given open-world scenario), you can essentially read off of a single file almost all textures a game will use, 4K performance is still paramount to using an SSD in a traditional system, but these aren't traditional systems... If you recall, RAGE had abyssmal texture pop-in on Video Cards of that era and still has quite a bit of Texture Pop-in today.

With that knowledge, I think it's clear to see PCs that do not have NVME SSDs will have their performance obliterated. You better hope they decide on having the Texture Cache option available on PCs rather than simply offloading that cache onto the GPU which would require 16GB+ VRAM.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR-uH8vSeBY&

Am I in agreement that the title of the article is sensationalized? Yes.
I'm thinking of doing a big RAMDisc to solve the problem (load entire game to RAM) and keep using my SATA SSDs.

Once games start to make 500MB character models standard and assume you can dump and fill VRAM within 5 seconds in open world streaming you're going to see PCI-E SSD as a compatibility requirement.
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post #28 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post
The Xbox doesn't have any exclusives any more and it's still selling very well.


The PS4 has GDDR5 and DDR3?
Microsoft doesn't report Xbox sales, presumable because they're far behind.

And no, PS4 just has GDDR5 ram.

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post #29 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 08:20 PM
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1) NVME support has been around for years on PC and It is fairly easy to mod it into older motherboard firmware(I've done so on my haswell machine, for example) and use a PCI-E to NVME adapter.

2) Any PC so old that it can't even be modded to support NVME is old enough that the CPU is likely the biggest bottleneck for the latest 2020 games.

3) It will probably take a few years for game devs to actually require faster than SATA SSDs for good performance since the PS4 and Xbox one have a huge install base and will likely still be relevant for some time.

Long story short, if 2022 comes around and you are still rocking a sandy bridge quad core, the lack of NVME is the least of your problems as a gamer.

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post #30 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020, 10:54 PM
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Ports that finally utilize the hardware we already have spells out doom for PC. I love it, it's bold.

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