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[PCGN] PS5’s SSD could spell doom for next-gen PC game ports

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post #61 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 06:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post
With the way they're talking about it at this point I'm almost certain they won't include an HDD.
It's not just throwing an SSD in a console either, they're probably going to be getting RAM like latency to the SSD, it's closer to Optane than a regular SSD.
In any capacity worth talking about (ie: capacity where you can install more than one or two AAA games at a time) an Optane-grade NVMe SSD is going to cost what the current consoles do. I know Sony/Microsoft use the console itself as a loss-leader and try to make it up on PSN/XBL/games... but I really don't see Optane-grade SSDs being an option.

Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
n its gonna be a QLC drive, so they can get the capacity high enough to not have a secondary piece of storage, while keeping it cheep.

see low end laptop segment with QLC NVMe (over the even cheaper m.2 options)
Yep; likely no cache either. On low/mid internet connections people won't notice... but people lucky enough to have Gigabit(+) internet are going to notice download speeds dropping like a rock after 50GB as the drive slows down. On that note, I saw a new low on my work QLC drives yesterday... 68MB/s write, albeit after sustained write/read load. It'd be faster to use a HDD.

Perhaps there will be some other way around this; heavy compression of files (zstandard, maybe?) with increased RAM to allow on-the-fly decompression?

Time will tell.


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post #62 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-13-2020, 06:32 PM
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woooaoaoaoahh that's terrible

I'm glad I haven't seen that slow yet. I think having them striped helps cushion the suck.

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post #63 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 05:10 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Shawnb99 View Post
Sony has to make exclusives otherwise no one would buy their consoles.
Considering the best-selling games are multiplats, I very much doubt it.

They wouldn't sell as many games no doubt but they'd still sell tons of units.

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post #64 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 07:48 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
In any capacity worth talking about (ie: capacity where you can install more than one or two AAA games at a time) an Optane-grade NVMe SSD is going to cost what the current consoles do. I know Sony/Microsoft use the console itself as a loss-leader and try to make it up on PSN/XBL/games... but I really don't see Optane-grade SSDs being an option.


Yep; likely no cache either. On low/mid internet connections people won't notice... but people lucky enough to have Gigabit(+) internet are going to notice download speeds dropping like a rock after 50GB as the drive slows down. On that note, I saw a new low on my work QLC drives yesterday... 68MB/s write, albeit after sustained write/read load. It'd be faster to use a HDD.

Perhaps there will be some other way around this; heavy compression of files (zstandard, maybe?) with increased RAM to allow on-the-fly decompression?

Time will tell.
I mean... I don't think a download limit of 65-70MB/s is really meaningful. You can download a 200GB game in well under an hour at that speed.

I know QLC has limitations, I just think they're meaningless for gaming.

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post #65 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 05:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by BigMack70 View Post
I mean... I don't think a download limit of 65-70MB/s is really meaningful. You can download a 200GB game in well under an hour at that speed.

I know QLC has limitations, I just think they're meaningless for gaming.
I think you missed my point almost entirely. My suggestion was that a) only people with super-high-end internet connections may ever see any impact from a cacheless QLC drive on a console and b) given that most people are not on an internet connection which can max out a gigabit connection, that it was not going to be an issue. The implicit extension of that was that in the read-heavy scenario of gaming it would likewise not be an issue. Unless, of course, savegame states suddenly balloon into multiple tens of GB.

The scenario I briefly touched upon where I saw 68MB/s was in a condition which is very much not an average state for 99.99% of systems out there, and now I know it is possible I will take steps to make sure I avoid it in future.

I'd happily use QLC for a gaming drive if it was cheap enough. In Japan they are cheaper than MLC, but not by enough to make the potential performance loss worth it. Having experienced firsthand the appalling performance possible in very specific conditions, I will avoid using them for work systems or any primary drive, although they are likely still OK for the latter.


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post #66 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-14-2020, 06:51 PM
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No way will the consoles get 3D XPoint memory. As such, that's an advantage to us if anyone is worried about caching on disk. Optane disks are available to us and have much lower latency. Ports should be helped by that.

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post #67 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 12:12 AM
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It honestly baffles me what people think is going to be in the "nex gen console", and it happends every generation. These consoles will be Zen 2, and Navi based. Pair that with whatever memory they put in it and a bog standard SSD and the price makes sense. Any fancy stuff that people are dreaming off is just not possible at a price point that MS and Sony can actually sell these things. It happened with the PS4/XbOne and the PS3/Xb360 as well, people expect far to much from these things.

Will it be better than last gen? sure. Will it be magic and make every PC obsolete over night like promised? No.

There are simply to many limiting factors that stops Sony and Microsoft from actually releasing anything that turns the marked upside down, the main one being the price point at which they can actually sell these units at the quantities that they require/want. Unless you want a 2-3000$ console, don't expect them to be "miracle" machines that somehow makes everything else obsolete.
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post #68 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 01:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Rainmaker91 View Post
It honestly baffles me what people think is going to be in the "nex gen console", and it happends every generation. These consoles will be Zen 2, and Navi based. Pair that with whatever memory they put in it and a bog standard SSD and the price makes sense. Any fancy stuff that people are dreaming off is just not possible at a price point that MS and Sony can actually sell these things. It happened with the PS4/XbOne and the PS3/Xb360 as well, people expect far to much from these things.

Will it be better than last gen? sure. Will it be magic and make every PC obsolete over night like promised? No.

There are simply to many limiting factors that stops Sony and Microsoft from actually releasing anything that turns the marked upside down, the main one being the price point at which they can actually sell these units at the quantities that they require/want. Unless you want a 2-3000$ console, don't expect them to be "miracle" machines that somehow makes everything else obsolete.
Depends how you look at miracles. PS4 had no reason to run games looking as good as God of War, yet it did. 30fps @ 1080p, sure no big deal right? A 1050Ti could do it too, but it never did. So miracles are only myths until they're actually done.

Consoles aren't going to make PCs obsolete as long as there are morons still buying intel CPUs at cut throat prices.
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post #69 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 06:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post
Depends how you look at miracles. PS4 had no reason to run games looking as good as God of War, yet it did. 30fps @ 1080p, sure no big deal right? A 1050Ti could do it too, but it never did. So miracles are only myths until they're actually done.

Consoles aren't going to make PCs obsolete as long as there are morons still buying intel CPUs at cut throat prices.
Just because a game looks good doesnt make it a technical marvel, the amount of tradeoffs they used to reach the visual fidelity in the game are apparent. There is no reason why GoW couldnt be recreated on other hardware outside of Sony keeping the title exclusive. Its also important to note there are many titles more technically and even arguably more visually appealing than GoW.

There is absolutely no secret sauce in the PS4, if anything you can credit the skill of the developers. Sony has a very large advantage by having very skilled internal development teams, this has been true for literally years.




Last edited by Woundingchaney; 01-15-2020 at 07:33 AM.
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post #70 of 141 (permalink) Old 01-15-2020, 06:46 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by benbenkr View Post
Depends how you look at miracles. PS4 had no reason to run games looking as good as God of War, yet it did. 30fps @ 1080p, sure no big deal right? A 1050Ti could do it too, but it never did. So miracles are only myths until they're actually done.

Consoles aren't going to make PCs obsolete as long as there are morons still buying intel CPUs at cut throat prices.
that credit goes to developers knowing ever nook and cranny. nothing to do with the PS4 itself.

lost ya' there with the intel hate. watch out, you'll go grey early stressing like that.

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