[VB] Optane persistent memory: Is the end of conventional client storage almost here? - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
Forum Jump: 

[VB] Optane persistent memory: Is the end of conventional client storage almost here?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 10:38 AM
Not a linux lobbyist
 
rluker5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,089
Rep: 56 (Unique: 42)
Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
Does Optane really have any value for non-content creation and are the benefits only seen in content creation if all the assets are saved onto the optane memory? Like say you are creating a render on blender, windows and blender are installed onto the optane drive, but all the texture assets are saved onto an SSD?
A fast enough hard drive loads my cpu 100% (900p and rapid enabled ssd) in crystaldiskmark and I'm sure certain games load the cpu some while streaming assets. The 970 evo in my laptop loads the cpu to a lesser degree, but it is also a lot less responsive. All of that cpu core work could be dropped like a burnt pan of lasagna if either Windows makes direct access a native option, or the application supports it. What does your cpu do when you first enter an area in a game? With DAX optane dimms it could be nearly the same as if you had everything loaded. Popin could vanish. You could run a huge shader cache with little penalty. It would mean a lot more to performance than just a faster hard drive.

That benefit isn't here yet, but it looks like they are working on it.

From: https://software.intel.com/en-us/art...emory-on-linux
https://thessdguy.com/intels-optane-...p-direct-mode/
https://venturebeat.com/2020/02/03/o...e-almost-here/
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (48).jpg
Views:	11
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	328126  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (49).jpg
Views:	20
Size:	196.4 KB
ID:	328128  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot (50).jpg
Views:	10
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	328130  


L5
(17 items)
Lea2
(11 items)
L7
(11 items)
CPU
5775c
Motherboard
Maximus VII Hero
GPU
Aorus 1080ti Waterforce
RAM
16 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
RAM
8 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
Hard Drive
1Tb Team ssd
Hard Drive
seagate barracuda 3T
Hard Drive
Optane 900p 480G OS
Optical Drive
Asus BW-16D1HT
Power Supply
EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Cooling
Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 120 (cpu)
Cooling
2 140mm case fans, 2 120mm
Case
Fractal Design R4 (no window)
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
panasonic TC-58AX800U
Audio
Focal Elear, Nova 40, 598se, HE4xx, DT990pro w b.boost earpads
Audio
SoundbasterX AE-5, onboard
CPU
4770k
Motherboard
Asus Z87 Deluxe
GPU
Fury Nitro
RAM
8Gb klevv urbane 2133
Hard Drive
ROG Raidr 240Gb pcie
Hard Drive
1Tb WD blue
Power Supply
Pc Power&Cooling silencer Mk2 950w
Cooling
Deepcool Lucifer V2
Case
DIYPC P48-W
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
40"tv
CPU
4980hq
Motherboard
Asus H81T/CSM
RAM
8Gb 1600 samsung
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 evo 120gb
Power Supply
Skyvast 90w brick for hp pavilion something
Cooling
SilverStone Tek Super Slim
Case
SilverStone Tek PT13B
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
24" samsung 1080p
Keyboard
Logitech K400+
Other
Intel wifi ac card and noname antennas
▲ hide details ▲
rluker5 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 11:10 AM
What goes here?
 
speed_demon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,477
Rep: 142 (Unique: 101)
Sounds like a game changer. Looking forward to see how this sort of thing pans out for enthusiasts.

CPU
Ryzen 3900X
Motherboard
MSI X470 Gaming Plus
GPU
MSI R9 390 8GB
RAM
16GB DDR4-3000
Hard Drive
120GB HP M700 SSD
Hard Drive
Samsung Spintpoint M9T 2TB
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 500GB
Power Supply
Corsair HX1200 (2017)
Cooling
Thermalright True Spirit 140
Case
Fractal Define S
Operating System
Windows 10 LTSC
Keyboard
Alienware W/Cherry MX Switches
Mouse
Logitech G5
▲ hide details ▲


speed_demon is offline  
post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 01:07 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
DNMock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,720
Rep: 175 (Unique: 129)
Quote: Originally Posted by rluker5 View Post
A fast enough hard drive loads my cpu 100% (900p and rapid enabled ssd) in crystaldiskmark and I'm sure certain games load the cpu some while streaming assets. The 970 evo in my laptop loads the cpu to a lesser degree, but it is also a lot less responsive. All of that cpu core work could be dropped like a burnt pan of lasagna if either Windows makes direct access a native option, or the application supports it. What does your cpu do when you first enter an area in a game? With DAX optane dimms it could be nearly the same as if you had everything loaded. Popin could vanish. You could run a huge shader cache with little penalty. It would mean a lot more to performance than just a faster hard drive.

That benefit isn't here yet, but it looks like they are working on it.

From: https://software.intel.com/en-us/art...emory-on-linux
https://thessdguy.com/intels-optane-...p-direct-mode/
https://venturebeat.com/2020/02/03/o...e-almost-here/
So essentially in theory you could feed your gpu's Vram way faster by skipping a few steps and free up some cpu overhead as well, that about right?


DNMock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 03:56 PM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,501
Rep: 30 (Unique: 21)
So would the optane memory be ideally relegated to its own memory controller? Or could you share traditional memory DIMM's w/optane on the same memory controller?
8051 is offline  
post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 04:31 PM
Otherworlder
 
epic1337's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,478
Rep: 227 (Unique: 131)
ideally standard DRAM controller can be designated as LLC instead of your typical memory pool, while Optane takes over the memory pool.
this makes the hierarchy in perfect alignment with how its intended to be used, LLC will fetch from memory pool as it is faster.

trolling an adult is very dangerous, don't try it at home nor at work. you don't want to play tag with a rabid man.
epic1337 is offline  
post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 05:37 PM
Not a linux lobbyist
 
rluker5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,089
Rep: 56 (Unique: 42)
Quote: Originally Posted by DNMock View Post
So essentially in theory you could feed your gpu's Vram way faster by skipping a few steps and free up some cpu overhead as well, that about right?
Pretty much, as well as doing the same for loading to the cpu. But I don't know if Windows or a particular game would just "unpack" itself to your optane, or if you would have to right click it and do it manually or what. I imagine games would come from steam or wherever in the same way they do now so if nothing is done differently you will still have to go through the filesystem and the performance benefit wouldn't be that much.

But a gain in both speed and efficiency is a bunch to pass up for long.

L5
(17 items)
Lea2
(11 items)
L7
(11 items)
CPU
5775c
Motherboard
Maximus VII Hero
GPU
Aorus 1080ti Waterforce
RAM
16 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
RAM
8 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
Hard Drive
1Tb Team ssd
Hard Drive
seagate barracuda 3T
Hard Drive
Optane 900p 480G OS
Optical Drive
Asus BW-16D1HT
Power Supply
EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Cooling
Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 120 (cpu)
Cooling
2 140mm case fans, 2 120mm
Case
Fractal Design R4 (no window)
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
panasonic TC-58AX800U
Audio
Focal Elear, Nova 40, 598se, HE4xx, DT990pro w b.boost earpads
Audio
SoundbasterX AE-5, onboard
CPU
4770k
Motherboard
Asus Z87 Deluxe
GPU
Fury Nitro
RAM
8Gb klevv urbane 2133
Hard Drive
ROG Raidr 240Gb pcie
Hard Drive
1Tb WD blue
Power Supply
Pc Power&Cooling silencer Mk2 950w
Cooling
Deepcool Lucifer V2
Case
DIYPC P48-W
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
40"tv
CPU
4980hq
Motherboard
Asus H81T/CSM
RAM
8Gb 1600 samsung
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 evo 120gb
Power Supply
Skyvast 90w brick for hp pavilion something
Cooling
SilverStone Tek Super Slim
Case
SilverStone Tek PT13B
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
24" samsung 1080p
Keyboard
Logitech K400+
Other
Intel wifi ac card and noname antennas
▲ hide details ▲
rluker5 is offline  
post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-21-2020, 06:05 PM
Not a linux lobbyist
 
rluker5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,089
Rep: 56 (Unique: 42)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
So would the optane memory be ideally relegated to its own memory controller? Or could you share traditional memory DIMM's w/optane on the same memory controller?
I'm pretty sure they just use the DDR4 controller. Cascade Lake xeon already can use it. I have no idea of where to buy it though and you can probably only use it after buying permission so not ready for us yet.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/su...figuration.pdf
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14146...ow-with-optane
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...rocessors.html

L5
(17 items)
Lea2
(11 items)
L7
(11 items)
CPU
5775c
Motherboard
Maximus VII Hero
GPU
Aorus 1080ti Waterforce
RAM
16 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
RAM
8 Gb Gskill Trident @ 2400,cas10,1.575v
Hard Drive
1Tb Team ssd
Hard Drive
seagate barracuda 3T
Hard Drive
Optane 900p 480G OS
Optical Drive
Asus BW-16D1HT
Power Supply
EVGA Supernova 1300 G2
Cooling
Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 120 (cpu)
Cooling
2 140mm case fans, 2 120mm
Case
Fractal Design R4 (no window)
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
panasonic TC-58AX800U
Audio
Focal Elear, Nova 40, 598se, HE4xx, DT990pro w b.boost earpads
Audio
SoundbasterX AE-5, onboard
CPU
4770k
Motherboard
Asus Z87 Deluxe
GPU
Fury Nitro
RAM
8Gb klevv urbane 2133
Hard Drive
ROG Raidr 240Gb pcie
Hard Drive
1Tb WD blue
Power Supply
Pc Power&Cooling silencer Mk2 950w
Cooling
Deepcool Lucifer V2
Case
DIYPC P48-W
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
40"tv
CPU
4980hq
Motherboard
Asus H81T/CSM
RAM
8Gb 1600 samsung
Hard Drive
Samsung 850 evo 120gb
Power Supply
Skyvast 90w brick for hp pavilion something
Cooling
SilverStone Tek Super Slim
Case
SilverStone Tek PT13B
Operating System
W10 64 pro
Monitor
24" samsung 1080p
Keyboard
Logitech K400+
Other
Intel wifi ac card and noname antennas
▲ hide details ▲
rluker5 is offline  
post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 10:56 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,501
Rep: 30 (Unique: 21)
NUMA has been a thing in the server world for years with dual or quad socket servers where each socketed CPU handles it's own separate, local memory pool and access from any other CPU is severely slowed.

So is DAX equivalent to this type of NUMA (i.e. a separate memory address space from regular DRAM)? That really wouldn't be a new paradigm, Harvard architecture MCU's did this for decades.

So is this tech coming to HEDT? Or is it just for servers now?
8051 is offline  
post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 10:59 AM
New to Overclock.net
 
8051's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,501
Rep: 30 (Unique: 21)
Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
ideally standard DRAM controller can be designated as LLC instead of your typical memory pool, while Optane takes over the memory pool.
this makes the hierarchy in perfect alignment with how its intended to be used, LLC will fetch from memory pool as it is faster.
Could you use optane as a dedicated super fast storage cache (a la' Intel's Rapid Storage Technology's Smart Response Technology)?
8051 is offline  
post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 02-22-2020, 02:25 PM
Otherworlder
 
epic1337's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,478
Rep: 227 (Unique: 131)
Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
Could you use optane as a dedicated super fast storage cache (a la' Intel's Rapid Storage Technology's Smart Response Technology)?
possible in software even with today's available hardware, you'd have to check if they're interested in making one though.
ZFS for instance supports data caching through their ARC/L2ARC features.

trolling an adult is very dangerous, don't try it at home nor at work. you don't want to play tag with a rabid man.

Last edited by epic1337; 02-22-2020 at 02:29 PM.
epic1337 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off