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post #151 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 05:54 AM
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Nobody needs 2080ti
They need hopefully a faster/ cheaper 3080ti

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post #152 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-06-2020, 06:34 AM
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i'd be willing to bet in the modern world there are plenty of people that NEED their 2080ti.

like the guy in Italy with a dual MORAD 39509x system that can't experience down time, or he'll get fired.

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post #153 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 02:07 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
Wow that hypocrisy.

You realize that one 128GB Optane DIMM cost $700, right? You can go buy a 280GB PCI-e Optane drive for $400 and bump your 2080S to a 2080ti, all without sacrificing your CPU performance (and yet more money) by having to go Cascade Lake.

As for Asrock, they're advertising Optane "Memory", not DIMMs. Optane Memory is where you use a small (32GB or less generally) m.2 Optane drive as cache for your HDD, and then Intel goes for broke on the false advertising lawsuits by adding that number to the RAM on the specs page.
I notice you conveniently left out how much 128GiB of regular DDR4 memory costs: $4500.

Your last comment is blatantly false, you can get 32 GiB optane front-end cache for 1 TiB 3D-NAND drives/memory in a single m.2 format (i.e. the H10 optane product) and pure optane M2 drives/memory in 64 GiB. You can also use the M.2 format drives/memory as stand-alone, non-volatile storage and even split the H10 products into two, separate stand-alone, non-volatile storage devices.

The most expensive of their M10 M.2 format devices is $148.99:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...10-series.html

Intel's 32Gib optane/1 TiB 3D-NAND M.2 format device is $243.42:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...e-storage.html

I never said DCPMM was cheap just that it was fast, and performance costs money (a 66% to 90% improvement in DB performance using DCPMM):
https://blog.cloudera.com/maximizing...-optane-dcpmm/

Intel is already focusing on DDR5 compatible DCPMM.
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post #154 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
i'd be willing to bet in the modern world there are plenty of people that NEED their 2080ti.

like the guy in Italy with a dual MORAD 39509x system that can't experience down time, or he'll get fired.
You can't get a DDR4 DIMM with a 256 GiB or 512 GiB address space on one DIMM, but you can with Intel Optane DCPMM.
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post #155 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 03:14 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
I notice you conveniently left out how much 128GiB of regular DDR4 memory costs: $4500.

Your last comment is blatantly false, you can get 32 GiB optane front-end cache for 1 TiB 3D-NAND drives/memory in a single m.2 format (i.e. the H10 optane product) and pure optane M2 drives/memory in 64 GiB. You can also use the M.2 format drives/memory as stand-alone, non-volatile storage and even split the H10 products into two, separate stand-alone, non-volatile storage devices.

The most expensive of their M10 M.2 format devices is $148.99:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...10-series.html

Intel's 32Gib optane/1 TiB 3D-NAND M.2 format device is $243.42:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...e-storage.html

I never said DCPMM was cheap just that it was fast, and performance costs money (a 66% to 90% improvement in DB performance using DCPMM):
https://blog.cloudera.com/maximizing...-optane-dcpmm/

Intel is already focusing on DDR5 compatible DCPMM.
... And? Why would a 128GB DIMM be relevant to anyone? You're the one who brought a $1200 GPU into question against a $700 SSD. The US Navy should just use you to replace the Railgun project, you're clearly very adept at moving large chunks of cylindrical iron at high speeds.

I would also like to hear where the M10 does not do exactly as I described, as well as proof that Intel never decided to advertise Optane cache as RAM. Since what I said was false and all. I'll wait.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3322...al-memory.html
https://www.techspot.com/news/75137-...-not-what.html
https://captainreview.com/optane-memory-marketing/

Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
You can't get a DDR4 DIMM with a 256 GiB or 512 GiB address space on one DIMM, but you can with Intel Optane DCPMM.
How is this more useful than a 2080ti in gaming? Please, inform us.

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post #156 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 10:53 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
... And? Why would a 128GB DIMM be relevant to anyone? You're the one who brought a $1200 GPU into question against a $700 SSD. The US Navy should just use you to replace the Railgun project, you're clearly very adept at moving large chunks of cylindrical iron at high speeds.

I would also like to hear where the M10 does not do exactly as I described, as well as proof that Intel never decided to advertise Optane cache as RAM. Since what I said was false and all. I'll wait.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3322...al-memory.html
https://www.techspot.com/news/75137-...-not-what.html
https://captainreview.com/optane-memory-marketing/

How is this more useful than a 2080ti in gaming? Please, inform us.
You were the one ranting and raving about consoles having the superior secondary storage scheme to stream video game assets. 128 GiB of DCPMM is far superior to ANYTHING you'll be getting in any console anywhere. But I don't even know if you can use DCPMM in any consumer motherboard so what's the point?

It's hilarious that all this came up over your comment that the new consoles would be far better at streaming video game assets, yet M.2 optane devices would facilitate exactly that on PC's and be better at it than any of your SSD devices.

Furthermore (from https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...leCode=us_en):
"Intel® Optane™ memory can be used to combine, or ‘pair’, SATA storage devices with Intel® Optane™ technology to increase system responsiveness. Intel® Optane™ memory H Series provides the capability to combine, or ‘pair’, Intel® QLC 3D NAND storage with Intel® Optane™ technology on one M.2 2280 form factor using the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) software and management applications."

AND

"No. It can only be used in systems with the proper system BIOS capable of recognizing both halves of the device:

The Intel® Optane™ memory side, and
The Intel® QLC 3D NAND side

Each portion of the device will be recognized as a PCIe* x2 device, which can be combined, or ‘paired’, into a single volume using the Intel® RST driver and applications. If the device is placed in a system that isn't properly supported, only the Intel® QLC 3D NAND side of the device will be recognized and accessible.

Important: Using the device in this state is not validated or supported by Intel; results aren't guaranteed."

So it's not limited to only being useful as a cache for slower devices.
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post #157 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 10:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post
How is this more useful than a 2080ti in gaming? Please, inform us.
Your strawman argument won't work on me. I never stated optane memory is better than a 2080Ti just that top tier performance comes w/top tier prices.
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post #158 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-08-2020, 11:19 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
Your strawman argument won't work on me. I never stated optane memory is better than a 2080Ti just that top tier performance comes w/top tier prices.
We still don't know if Optane provides any advantages in games to begin with.
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post #159 of 159 (permalink) Old 04-09-2020, 06:19 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
Your strawman argument won't work on me. I never stated optane memory is better than a 2080Ti just that top tier performance comes w/top tier prices.
... And yet no one needs a 2080ti? I do recall you saying that in this thread.

The problem with your argument is you fail to see the whole picture. If you want Optane DIMMs, then you need Cascade Lake, which means you can't have a 9900KS, which means you can't have the best performance in lightly threaded workloads, like gaming, the original topic being that this is a console thread.

See how that works?

Quote: Originally Posted by 8051 View Post
You were the one ranting and raving about consoles having the superior secondary storage scheme to stream video game assets. 128 GiB of DCPMM is far superior to ANYTHING you'll be getting in any console anywhere. But I don't even know if you can use DCPMM in any consumer motherboard so what's the point?

It's hilarious that all this came up over your comment that the new consoles would be far better at streaming video game assets, yet M.2 optane devices would facilitate exactly that on PC's and be better at it than any of your SSD devices.

Furthermore (from https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...leCode=us_en):
"Intel® Optane™ memory can be used to combine, or ‘pair’, SATA storage devices with Intel® Optane™ technology to increase system responsiveness. Intel® Optane™ memory H Series provides the capability to combine, or ‘pair’, Intel® QLC 3D NAND storage with Intel® Optane™ technology on one M.2 2280 form factor using the Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) software and management applications."

AND

"No. It can only be used in systems with the proper system BIOS capable of recognizing both halves of the device:

The Intel® Optane™ memory side, and
The Intel® QLC 3D NAND side

Each portion of the device will be recognized as a PCIe* x2 device, which can be combined, or ‘paired’, into a single volume using the Intel® RST driver and applications. If the device is placed in a system that isn't properly supported, only the Intel® QLC 3D NAND side of the device will be recognized and accessible.

Important: Using the device in this state is not validated or supported by Intel; results aren't guaranteed."

So it's not limited to only being useful as a cache for slower devices.
I don't know what the point is, why did you bring it up if you do not know the point of your argument?

Last I checked, I do not believe I spoke about streaming assets being better than on PC. You can find the post and show me I'm wrong, but my arguments about the consoles were about GPUs primarily, and my only argument on the topic of the storage was that there were zero external hot-swap competing standards that would be better than what Microsoft chose to make, and I don't think I voiced that here, only on Discord.

Fun fact, even on the H10, it is used to cache for a slow SSD. See the bit about how it is not supported in any other way?

What you want for non-cache performance are the Optane 900p and 905p, the Optane-only AIC or 2.5in drives, like the one in my rig, as they can be used in any computer. Not the cruddy M.2 solutions (Optane "Memory") or the impossible to use DIMM (Optane DIMMs) ones.

Fun fact number two, it does not provide a significant boost in gaming because you are CPU limited far more than storage limited on loading times, even on a SATA SSD, at least for now. Optane excels in random reads, and game texture streaming is, clearly given what tech is in the consoles, going to be sequentially optimized. Optane cards are not the fastest NVMe solution in Seq reads.

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