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[IGN] HP, Valve, and Microsoft Are Building a 'Next-Gen' VR Headset

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 03:13 PM
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Hopefully one of these devices will actually deliver an immersive experience (or at least something competitive to a high end TV setup), and I'll finally buy into VR. Not really in a hurry because the software isn't really there yet anyways. At least Valve finally delivered a a real VR game, so things have been set in motion.

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 05:47 PM
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It sounds nice. At least with Valve on it, it'll work with Steam (hopefully Linux too) and the possibility of it working with the new XBox is also appealing.

I have just one problem: if it's HP branded, I won't be buying it. I've been messed around by HP too much to risk it again. It's a pity, because my first laptop was an HP and I loved it... but when a company I'm trying to spend money with treats me like something nasty they stepped in, I stop using them.


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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 05:51 PM
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can confirm HP customer support, even when you have an elevated/commercial warranty, is garbage.

We've gotten lucky, as we now have an actual HP rep to funnel RMAs thru. before that though, it was a always a terrible experience. I recommend the chat support, and just keep saying yes. don't be honest. tell them exactly what they wanna hear. air-troubleshoot the issue with them. etc.


wish we were still a Lenovo shop. though maybe not, due to how they spy via board level solutions now, or whatever that news was.

You've brought forth an incredibly valid point. with 3 companies involved, who will be the final front man for the operation? I'd hope its Valve, and just HP manufactured.

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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 06:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
It sounds nice. At least with Valve on it, it'll work with Steam (hopefully Linux too) and the possibility of it working with the new XBox is also appealing.

I have just one problem: if it's HP branded, I won't be buying it. I've been messed around by HP too much to risk it again. It's a pity, because my first laptop was an HP and I loved it... but when a company I'm trying to spend money with treats me like something nasty they stepped in, I stop using them.
You're not alone in that I promise you. I will buy HP but only if it's a smoking hot deal, otherwise nah. Was treated the same way by Gigabyte & ASrock support too.

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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 06:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
can confirm HP customer support, even when you have an elevated/commercial warranty, is garbage.

We've gotten lucky, as we now have an actual HP rep to funnel RMAs thru. before that though, it was a always a terrible experience. I recommend the chat support, and just keep saying yes. don't be honest. tell them exactly what they wanna hear. air-troubleshoot the issue with them. etc.

wish we were still a Lenovo shop. though maybe not, due to how they spy via board level solutions now, or whatever that news was.

You've brought forth an incredibly valid point. with 3 companies involved, who will be the final front man for the operation? I'd hope its Valve, and just HP manufactured.
Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
You're not alone in that I promise you. I will buy HP but only if it's a smoking hot deal, otherwise nah. Was treated the same way by Gigabyte & ASrock support too.
Nice to know it's not just me that has had terrible experiences of HP.

I've never needed Gigabyte or Asrock customer support, so I have no idea how they are. I had a very good (if rather slow) experience with Sapphire and a dead X1900XT (that's a story for another day) and Maxtor did OK with the one and only HDD I ever RMA'd. Sony were amazingly helpful when I had issues with a MemoryStick Pro Duo (even longer story for another day).

I foresee some shenanigans with regards to "ownership" of the device unless it's already cast in stone - which it probably is, given they announced it - depending whether it is successful or disastrous. I can't see Valve wanting it MS branded (although MS did make some amazing controllers back in the day) and likewise I can't see MS wanting it Valve branded unless it's only going to be Windows PC "augmented reality", with no possibility of hooking it up to the new XBox.

Lenovo have board-level spying? How did I miss that news?


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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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idk man, i'd have to google to find what I'm thinking of, and screw that!

i just remember they got called out for less than wholesome practices with their support assistant. not sure if its embedded.

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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 08:04 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
Is this because you're so close to the display you notice pixellation and refresh rate more?

Is there any setup that can drive 2x displays at 4K 120Hz? Or is the image just doubled?

I've only done the android VR thing so I have no idea where the PC VR world is at.
In terms of resolution and field of view, the Pixels Per Degree in current VR displays is about as good as what you'd get sitting in front of a monitor from the 1980's. Existing VR headsets are such low resolution if anyone were to take an eye exam using the VR headset they'd probably be deemed legally blind.

This would actually be a very interesting experiment and would be quite telling about the current state of VR tech.

How it's driven is irrelevant, I don't care if my Sim rig has four cables coming out of the headset (or eight cables if we can manage a return of dual GPU, which might be easier to justify with VR since there are two displays).


Quote: Originally Posted by LancerVI View Post
Don't know if I agree with the 4k120hz part; 4k90hz seems a more realistic mark, but the second part I absolutely do.

It's not the shooters or beat sabers of the world. It's flight, racing and space sims where VR shines! Simulation in general is where VR can get the strongest foothold, IMHO. I can't even flight sim without it anymore.
No-one plays any competitive shooters below 120hz, or competitive anything in general, especially Racing where the fidelity of motion is so important.
The perceived improvement of the connection between wheel and the display while running 300fps on my 144hz monitor is night and day.
At the very least 240hz will become standard in VR.
Some people are also very sensitive to framerates, 240hz is a big help with basic compatibility.

Don't forget we have a whole lot of tech on the horizon that will make resolution scalable in ways people couldn't imagine before, and with VR you have more opportunity than ever to implement eye tracking for foveated rendering.
Just because you have all the pixels doesn't mean you need to use them all at once.

So in the end a good VR headset will be 8K240hz per-eye.

Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
VR would be great at 4K120 per eye, but it doesn't need it, that's like saying you need 4k 120hz to play pc games.

I have been enjoying the heck out of my oculus quest and it doesn't even have 90hz. I found out that I could use it on my PC a few weeks ago and it has brought new life to racing sims, I would love to play around with a high refresh rate headset (like valves) but it's not needed to enjoy it.
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Quote: Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post

And yes, seated is all that matters.
At least we can agree on something. All the focus on room scale VR is dramatically limiting adoption.
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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 10:04 AM
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On another note, it doesnt have to have improved specs to be useful.

They could add features instead that would be just as interesting...

Hand tracking, eye tracking, lip tacking, full body tracking, wireless, AR (better quality cameras), comfort, weight, cost, sound.... smell, force feedback, neural interface...

There are many areas to imrpove on. I doubt it will have these but as long as they keep moving the tech forward.
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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 05:09 PM
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But what is the FOV? I abandoned this generation of VR cause the fov sucked. It's really no fun feeling like you're looking through goggles. Kinda kills the whole experience. It needs to be 220, which is the human real life fov.

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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-27-2020, 05:16 PM
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That's why I stopped using the android VR. After the novelty wears off you start to see all the downsides to it.

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