[AnandTech] Intel Details 10th Gen Comet Lake-H for 45 W Notebooks: Up to 5.3 GHz* - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[AnandTech] Intel Details 10th Gen Comet Lake-H for 45 W Notebooks: Up to 5.3 GHz*

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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 08:58 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Awsan View Post
Yes I know there were some laptops that ran 5Ghz on the older 9980hk but it was a freaking portable oven.
Yes unlocked bioses are great but power delivery isnt, I tried some of the tricks on my older 9750h "Imon slop" negative wattage + some ram OC and got a much better low 1% performance compared to it running stock but holly sh i t did that raise the temp insanely (75 before the trick and nearly thermal throttling "90-95" after)

Will some laptops to be able to run on 5ghz + 24/7? Yes will it be under Intel's specs? No.
Some people will work hard to figure how to tame the beast and we will get some insane laptops running a 5ghz cpu with a 2080 super that will make it a step away from an equivalent spec'd desktop.

how does imon slope and LLC work on unlocked bios laptops? I have a t480 (ulv 8650U) and wondering if I could tweak something to make the chip more power efficient under load

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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 09:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Another issue is the "IPC" problem.

It was tested repeatedly versus "Desktop chip" (LGA) laptop systems that BGAbooks run at the same clock (even at the exact same RAM timings) as LGAbooks in the same family (Example: 7820HK-->7700K, 8950HK-->8700K) would get about 100 mhz worth of lower scores in Cinebench when compared at the exact same clocks, no matter what you tried to change in the BIOS.

This performance gap didn't show up at all in AIDA64 L2 and L3 cache tests...the cache speed bandwidth was not an issue. And it had nothing to do with spectre/meltdown (OS versions tested didn't even support mitigations).
I don't personally think its an IPC problem, its more of a clock stretching with the lower wattage problem.

I have tested 5 devices with 9750h and noticed something weird, my GE75 will lock at 4ghz all day long, I will run a couple of cinebench runs and all will score under 3k (This was with the hard lock at 45W) I have monitored the clocks with several programs while the bench is running and all are reported the same thing 4ghz.

Then comes my brother's Y540 that thing can get a stable PL2 of 70w(Using throttle stop, unlike the MSI) instead of 45w and I tested it with several runs, All that were locked at 45w (Wont dip under 4ghz) will score under 3k (2880-2950) but the second I raise that wattage to 70w I scored 3098 that is nearly 8% faster than the 2880 I used to get, and get this after the Imon slope trick on the GE75 I had a similar result.

Power delivery, thermal limits and manufactures garbage firmware are the reason we are having these kind of issues, People need to understand that the clocks reported in laptops are as useless as Intel claims, the only way to make sure laptops are performing correctly is to do a real world test (Even most benchmarks can't be trusted in these cases) as I have seen laptops that get a better score after an under-volt but games will run like ****.

Unless these are sorted out somehow we won't have anyway of determining a laptop performance from just the specs, unlike the desktop counterpart.

This is why if you watch a B.O.B video or a jarrod video you will find a big variation between similarly spec'd laptops even if they try to optimize it.(Both test at stock and optimized)

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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 09:05 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
how does imon slope and LLC work on unlocked bios laptops? I have a t480 (ulv 8650U) and wondering if I could tweak something to make the chip more power efficient under load
Never tried it on anything other than the 9750 but here is a good guide on where to start.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thre...ersion.823065/

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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 09:08 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Awsan View Post
Never tried it on anything other than the 9750 but here is a good guide on where to start.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thre...ersion.823065/
doesn't mention LLC/IMON Slope

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 09:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
doesn't mention LLC/IMON Slope
Yes, this is a good guide for the efficiency part, as for the IMON Slope the way I used it was in "Negative" Offset to fake a lower power draw so I am able to raise the wattage to get more performance.

These are the settings I followed:

Set AC Loadline between 5~10, this one decides how much the CPU should increase the voltage.
Set DC Loadline between 5~10, this one decides how much the CPU should decrease the voltage.
Set IMON Slope to 50
Set IMON Offset to 31999
Set IMON Prefix to "-", This is important, if you set it wrong you'll throttle like no tomorrow.
Set VR Current Limit to 928
Set TDC Enabled to Disabled
Set TDC Current Limit to 0


And here is a good post discussing the matter
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thre...#post-10863491

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Last edited by Awsan; 04-02-2020 at 09:18 PM.
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-02-2020, 09:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by TK421 View Post
doesn't mention LLC/IMON Slope
No laptop in existence lets you change LLC (Loadline calibration). It's always hardwired to the SKU defaults.
DC Loadline Override (mOhms) which is hidden in CPU Overclocking Menu is supposed to control Loadline Calibration, according to AMI, but not even Clevos have it hooked up to anything. Since there's no vcore sensor (all laptops use VID override, which is NOT the same thing, when you use "Fixed" voltage), the only way to even know if DC Loadline Override (mOhms) is doing anything is to look at temps and power consumption after the change (temps work best), but one person tested it in a recent MSIbook and another on a DTR Clevo, and the values weren't wired to anything.

AC Loadline controls the VID response to the VRM, which helps set vcore before the hardwired LLC vdroop takes effect. It's rather a simple formula too:
vCPU=CPU base VID (depending on multiplier). Override voltage rewrites the base VID with the override value.

Vcore=vCPU + (AC Loadline mOhms * Amps) - (LLC mOhms*Amps) +vOffset, with LLC usually hardwired to 1.8, 2.1 or 1.6 mOhms.

while

"VID" shown is vCPU + AC Loadline mOhms * Amps - (DC Loadline mOhms * Amps) +vOffset

The displayed VID is also affected by DC Loadline, but DC Loadline doesn't affect vcore (ok, it does in a very small way; seems to be a 15mv difference between DC Loadline=0.01 mOhms and 1.6 mOhms, but "VID" will differ drastically between these two values. At least that's from what I saw on my Z390 Aorus Master, when looking at VR VOUT.

On desktops, using a fixed vcore bypasses AC Loadline completely (VID will still be affected by it).

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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-03-2020, 12:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
Another issue is the "IPC" problem.

It was tested repeatedly versus "Desktop chip" (LGA) laptop systems that BGAbooks run at the same clock (even at the exact same RAM timings) as LGAbooks in the same family (Example: 7820HK-->7700K, 8950HK-->8700K) would get about 100 mhz worth of lower scores in Cinebench when compared at the exact same clocks, no matter what you tried to change in the BIOS.

This performance gap didn't show up at all in AIDA64 L2 and L3 cache tests...the cache speed bandwidth was not an issue. And it had nothing to do with spectre/meltdown (OS versions tested didn't even support mitigations).
fewer cache?

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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-03-2020, 05:31 AM
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Exciting, I wonder if the plastic melts if you actually force it to run anywhere near those speeds.

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Haha, Liranan, you creep.

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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-03-2020, 08:20 AM
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 04-03-2020, 08:31 AM
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Moving up to 45w for mobile processors now? Pretty sad for Intel. Guess they have to try something since their big new 25w Ice Lake mobile that was supposed to wipe the floor with AMD only managed to match the single threaded performance AMD has and got stomped in multicore.

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