[TechPowerUp] AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible - Page 11 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[TechPowerUp] AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible

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post #101 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 07:29 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post
AMD defines the specs for the AM4 interface. They are the ones in control of how the CPU communicates and interfaces with the board. They are the ones who decides if a CPU architecture is going to be compatible with the board. Since we know the AM4 electrical specifications aren't changing (since Ryzen 4000 will be compatible with existing x570 boards, which are compatible with all existing Ryzen CPUs), there is no reason why Ryzen 4000 shouldn't work with existing AM4 boards.

It's AMD arbitrarily limiting chipsets by not providing board manufacturers with the necessary microcode to update their BIOSes. The platform power specifications haven't changed, and the chipset on AM4 boards is just a PCI-E device like any other.
Then why don't all previous chipsets support Zen 2? Isn't it the same argument? Only certain boards got an updated bios to support 3000 series chips. Why wouldn't the board makers provide updates to all the previous chipsets?
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post #102 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 07:33 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Melan View Post
How I spend my money isn't your concern. Considering X470 users are shafted as well, this "but it's a budget board" argument is pointless.

The company should learn to keep its mouth shut when it comes to vague promises of support and how "it seems hostile and abusive to arbitrarily prevent users from keeping the same motherboard".

But please, do continue to justify this appalling behaviour of AMD.
Ok, continue enjoying your anger. I'll enjoy my product.

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post #103 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 05:26 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Brimlock View Post
Then why don't all previous chipsets support Zen 2? Isn't it the same argument? Only certain boards got an updated bios to support 3000 series chips. Why wouldn't the board makers provide updates to all the previous chipsets?
Almost every single older board has been updated to support Zen 2. There are even A320 boards that support the 3950X.

Quote: Originally Posted by m4fox90 View Post
I have a 3900X and an X370 and I see no problem with this whatsoever. There's no upgrade to anything but the best 1 or 2 4XXX CPUs, and it won't be much, and it certainly won't be worth the cost.

If anything it's nice to know the only real upgrade path I have is one that leads to a total new system, which by the time it's necessary, will be a real and dramatic increase in performance at a given price point, including DDR5 and PCIe 5 (hopefully, but PCIe 4 for sure). AMD did right by X370 purchasers.
You seem to be assuming that Zen 3 is just going to be a 3-5% incremental improvement over Zen 2, like how Zen+ was to Zen. If that's the case, then it's no big deal and for most people the upgrade wouldn't be worth it over Zen 2. But what if Zen 3 is 25% more performant? That is a substantial performance increase and definitely worth it to Zen, Zen+ and probably even Zen 2 users.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone is with Zen 2 is running a 3900X or 3950X (hence your "it'd only be worth upgrading to the best 1 or 2 4xxx CPUs). There are hundreds of thousands of people running 3600 and 3600x CPUs, in which case a 4xxx 8c part would be a substantial and very viable upgrade path (especially if it offers 25% more performance). With Intel's 10k parts coming way down in price, it's likely the next gen parts will be even cheaper, with the "4950x" probably being closer to the $500-600 mark.

Finally, you're also making the assertion that people who need fast computers must be using them for business (hence the, "If you need the performance, you can just write if off"). That is just blatantly false, and you know it. There's very little actual tangible difference in performance and features of a B450 board compared to an X570. You get an extra nvme slot, PCI-E 4 (on 1 or 2 slots) and slightly better connectivity. For the vast majority of users, none of that matters. More USB 3.0 ports and PCI-E 4.0 slots aren't going to make my H265 encodes go any faster. PCI-E 3.0 x16 won't be a bottleneck for at least another hardware generation cycle. A GTX 2080ti is the first GPU that kinda-sorta pushes the limit of a PCI-E 3.0 x8 slot, let alone an x16.

The notion that AMD is doing users a "favor" by canceling b350, b450, x370 and x470 support for Zen 3 is ridiculous.

Last edited by AmericanLoco; 05-13-2020 at 05:49 AM.
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post #104 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 07:05 AM
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Uhum, not to interfere with the internet hate train, has there been any OFFICIAL news regarding this topic? Or is everything based on speculation and terrible journalism. I can imagine that especially some of the early x370 boards with small bios chips can simply not support the firmware necessary to run zen 3, on top of that, manufacturers operate within a range of "X is the minimum you can get away with, but you may need Y for future CPU's". I wouldn't doubt that there will be older boards that are okay to run the 4xxx series, and if so, they will receive manufacturer support. However, because the mobo thresholds are so different AMD cannot guarantee that 4xxx parts will run on 3/4 series mobo's. I would wait with the hate until you actually see what is up, what limitation there is, and most importantly WHY the 4xxx chips wouldn't work in the older boards. On top of that, if you want to upgrade, there are going to be A LOT of 3900x/3950x parts on the second hand market at wildly reduced costs.

I think at that point this is potentially the max you can get out of the older boards anyway so there is no real reason to push 4xxx onto boards that can barely support them. Wait and listen to the how and why, then come to conclusions and make a decision whether this was done out of a profit grab for mobo manufacturers, or because there are valid technical reasons that can cause bad things to happen with 4xxx cpu's in older boards. On top of that, as said before, I totally expect some 300/400 series boards to support 4xxx cpu's, but it will be up to the board manufacturer to make that happen. Assuming AMD is pulling a short one after they completely ousted Intel and changed the definition of enthusiast CPU's in the past 4 years is a little premature.

Just my two cents, we're all entitled to our opinion!

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post #105 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 07:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by braincracking View Post
Uhum, not to interfere with the internet hate train, has there been any OFFICIAL news regarding this topic? Or is everything based on speculation and terrible journalism. I can imagine that especially some of the early x370 boards with small bios chips can simply not support the firmware necessary to run zen 3, on top of that, manufacturers operate within a range of "X is the minimum you can get away with, but you may need Y for future CPU's". I wouldn't doubt that there will be older boards that are okay to run the 4xxx series, and if so, they will receive manufacturer support. However, because the mobo thresholds are so different AMD cannot guarantee that 4xxx parts will run on 3/4 series mobo's. I would wait with the hate until you actually see what is up, what limitation there is, and most importantly WHY the 4xxx chips wouldn't work in the older boards. On top of that, if you want to upgrade, there are going to be A LOT of 3900x/3950x parts on the second hand market at wildly reduced costs.

I think at that point this is potentially the max you can get out of the older boards anyway so there is no real reason to push 4xxx onto boards that can barely support them. Wait and listen to the how and why, then come to conclusions and make a decision whether this was done out of a profit grab for mobo manufacturers, or because there are valid technical reasons that can cause bad things to happen with 4xxx cpu's in older boards. On top of that, as said before, I totally expect some 300/400 series boards to support 4xxx cpu's, but it will be up to the board manufacturer to make that happen. Assuming AMD is pulling a short one after they completely ousted Intel and changed the definition of enthusiast CPU's in the past 4 years is a little premature.

Just my two cents, we're all entitled to our opinion!
They should then advertise that they cannot guarantee support for all motherboards with older chipsets, not that there will not be support. Those are two very different things.
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post #106 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 07:31 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by braincracking View Post
Uhum, not to interfere with the internet hate train, has there been any OFFICIAL news regarding this topic?
lol. Where do you think this news came from?
https://community.amd.com/community/...amd-socket-am4
The article in the OP has its very first sentence saying "AMD disclosed this information today". Gotta actually read the news articles

Quote:
Q: What about (X pre-500 Series chipset)?
A: AMD has no plans to introduce “Zen 3” architecture support for older chipsets.

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