[TechPowerUp] AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[TechPowerUp] AMD B550 Chipset Detailed, It's Ready for Zen 3, Older AM4 Motherboards not Compatible

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post #21 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 11:00 AM
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This is kind of disappointing. I'm certain this is a result of motherboard manufacturers using 16mb chips well past their prime and not wanting to maintain 3 different branches of UEFI(zen 1/+, Zen+/2, Zen2/3). Hopefully Zen 3 is a more substantial change than simply higher IPC and 7nm IO die. Otherwise, Zen 3 could have just been supported with the Zen 2 branch — at least on the boards with 32mb chips.

If the 5** boards actually have some secret sauce for Zen3 we just haven't heard about it would be more understandable (still disappointing though).

Fortunately we haven't yet hit Intel levels of abandonment since x570 supports everything and b550 still supports Zen2. I suspect people looking to save a buck may go with b550+Zen2 in a few months, if the price is right on those boards.

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post #22 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
They are doing what they said they would do 3 years ago

https://www.eteknix.com/amd-am4-2020/


Also tend to agree with The Stilt on the subject - it's time.

Three gens of chip , managing to double the core count and generally being able to use the same motherboard for all without major sacrifices is pretty remarkable.
I'd agree more with the socket change if they didn't work with X570 either then. If the chips fit in X570, they should fit in X470 and below as well. I don't see why they would need to limit it other than to please OEMs by not making them release another set of updated bioses for older boards (which is IMO not that great of a reason). It really only seems like PCIe 4 is the only difference between X470 and X570 (along with some more minor things), so I don't really see why now is the "time" to require new boards. DDR5/PCIe5/whatever else is coming up in the future makes a lot more sense, but right now (the end of DDR4?) seems like a weird time to force people to upgrade boards when they are likely going to have to do that again for the next CPUs.

PCIe 4 seems great and all, but the speed differences in NVME drives is not worthwhile enough for me to want to get an X570 board and I don't know if next gen GPUs will saturate an x16 PCIe 3.0 slot yet (the RTX 2080ti doesn't seem to be handicapped that much by a PCIe 3.0 X8 slot [~3% worse overall: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/n...caling/7.html]), but if they are not, it seems like even less of a reason to get a new board just to get a new CPU.

Quote: Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post
This is kind of disappointing. I'm certain this is a result of motherboard manufacturers using 16mb chips well past their prime and not wanting to maintain 3 different branches of UEFI(zen 1/+, Zen+/2, Zen2/3). Hopefully Zen 3 is a more substantial change than simply higher IPC and 7nm IO die. Otherwise, Zen 3 could have just been supported with the Zen 2 branch — at least on the boards with 32mb chips.

If the 5** boards actually have some secret sauce for Zen3 we just haven't heard about it would be more understandable (still disappointing though).
Agree with you completely and especially on the bolded.
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post #23 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 11:39 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
They are doing what they said they would do 3 years ago
https://www.eteknix.com/amd-am4-2020/
Also tend to agree with The Stilt on the subject - it's time.
Three gens of chip , managing to double the core count and generally being able to use the same motherboard for all without major sacrifices is pretty remarkable.


I guess that's why there will be no 450/470 MB owners who will be unhappy their MB is one generation only.

CPUs are designed 3 years before they come out on market. ZEN 3 was designed to support previous chips, otherwise they would have announced that the 450/470s were EOL with the Ryzen 3000 series. Ryzen 4000 not supporting previous chips is a business, not a technical decision.
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post #24 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 11:55 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post
I guess that's why there will be no 450/470 MB owners who will be unhappy their MB is one generation only.

CPUs are designed 3 years before they come out on market. ZEN 3 was designed to support previous chips, otherwise they would have announced that the 450/470s were EOL with the Ryzen 3000 series. Ryzen 4000 not supporting previous chips is a business, not a technical decision.
There are two types of support, one of them is official support and it looks like we won't get that according to AMD's statement. The other would be motherboard manufacturers supporting it, and we don't yet know if that will happen or not. AMD not officially supporting could very easily be a business decision, we won't really know until we hear from motherboard manufacturers.

I have no doubt that motherboard manufacturers will support it if they can. The last thing any motherboard manufacturer that sells motherboards compatible with AMD processors wants to be "the one" who wants to force you to buy a new motherboard. If it can be done, one of them will do it, and it will force all of them to do it.

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post #25 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 12:09 PM
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/am...et-motherboard

Here's a vendor that's definitely going to be caught with pants down... ops 400 chips support Ryzen 4000 CPUs
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post #26 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 12:13 PM
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I would not be at all surprised if we start seeing more manufacturers come forward with information on supporting 4000 series chips on older motherboards. Happened the same way with the last processor launch. AMD didn't support out of the box but did leave the option on the table for the manufacturers.

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post #27 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post
They are doing what they said they would do 3 years ago

https://www.eteknix.com/amd-am4-2020/


Also tend to agree with The Stilt on the subject - it's time.

Three gens of chip , managing to double the core count and generally being able to use the same motherboard for all without major sacrifices is pretty remarkable.
My first CPU and motherboard was a Socket 939 based and if you don't know how that ended google it. Well I will tell you how that ended, one generation supported and and increase by 1 pin for the next socket. Still I have supported AMD for 15 years straight.
Like you said 3 generation and a doubling of a 8 core /16 thread in the same socket over 3 years aint bad.

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post #28 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-07-2020, 01:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post
I'd agree more with the socket change if they didn't work with X570 either then. If the chips fit in X570, they should fit in X470 and below as well. I don't see why they would need to limit it other than to please OEMs by not making them release another set of updated bioses for older boards (which is IMO not that great of a reason). It really only seems like PCIe 4 is the only difference between X470 and X570 (along with some more minor things), so I don't really see why now is the "time" to require new boards. DDR5/PCIe5/whatever else is coming up in the future makes a lot more sense, but right now (the end of DDR4?) seems like a weird time to force people to upgrade boards when they are likely going to have to do that again for the next CPUs.

PCIe 4 seems great and all, but the speed differences in NVME drives is not worthwhile enough for me to want to get an X570 board and I don't know if next gen GPUs will saturate an x16 PCIe 3.0 slot yet (the RTX 2080ti doesn't seem to be handicapped that much by a PCIe 3.0 X8 slot [~3% worse overall: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/n...caling/7.html]), but if they are not, it seems like even less of a reason to get a new board just to get a new CPU.



Agree with you completely and especially on the bolded.
All valid points , certainly.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDub07 View Post
My first CPU and motherboard was a Socket 939 based and if you don't know how that ended google it. Well I will tell you how that ended, one generation supported and and increase by 1 pin for the next socket. Still I have supported AMD for 15 years straight.
Like you said 3 generation and a doubling of a 8 core /16 thread in the same socket over 3 years aint bad.
It seems reasonable to me, especially when you consider the enormous leap AMD made with Ryzen .

My first cpu was a mos technology 6502 I believe it ran at 1 mhz?


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post #29 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-08-2020, 08:58 PM
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the mobo vendors that want to will update their "beta bios" to support the new chips just like they did with the most recent 3000 chips.

The boards with 32mb ROM will most likely support all of them. This is a guideline from amd more than anything, if the board partners figure out a way to make it work then it will work, they just wont get help from AMD directly.

Just like Intel/microsoft saying anything on skylake and up doesnt support windows XP yet ASUS is explicitly advertising win XP support for their new Z490 Apex.

They said that x570 dont accept first gen or the excavator am4 APU yet my AsRock board accepts every chip ever produced for am4 and every ram including ECC unbuffered which AMD only supports on "pro" chips, and its the cheapest x570 available.
Im thinking about putting a potato chip in the socket it might boot up.

Honestly the mobo manufacturers probably get tired of tech support calls "why doesnt my chip work" so they just say **** AMD and make everything work.
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post #30 of 106 (permalink) Old 05-08-2020, 09:07 PM
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What about Renoir aka APU Ryzen 4000. Will that be supported?

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