[TH] 8 TB Samsung QVO SSD Mysteriously Appears on Amazon for $900 - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[TH] 8 TB Samsung QVO SSD Mysteriously Appears on Amazon for $900

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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 04:16 PM
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so QLC is much slower. Okay.. I would really like to have 2x 8TB NVMe drives in my system since it has only 2 NVMe slots... but I'm happy with 2x 4TB for now.
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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 04:24 PM
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This would almost be appealing for those stuck with a laptop's drive size limitation - I know of a handful of Clevo/Sager's that have 2x 2.5" drive slots and know of plenty more laptops with a single 2.5" slot for upgrades, but have never heard of one with a 3.5" drive space where you could install a typical 8TB drive into. So there might be a limited market for people there.

Actually come to think of it, my old Clevo had 2x 2.5" slots and 2x NVMe slots so in theory with enough dough I could have gone wild and had 24TB worth of solid state storage onboard, with nearly no penalty to weight. That would be pretty nuts lol.

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 04:57 PM
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QLC drives are targeted at use cases where you mainly read not write, the read speed is fine but the write speed drops off once the cache fills up. The cache on these drives is variable and, providing you have not filled the drive almost completely, will typically be around 50 - 100GB and will start to empty any time there is a break in write activity.

In consumer use, the initial copy of your steam library or movie collection will be slow but I would be surprised if people noticed a difference in day to day use as the cache is very large.

Where a QLC drive is suitable:
1) Your college age daughter/sons laptop where they word process do social media and occasionally game or watch a movie, they will notice no difference
2) As a faster option for the data drive on a system with a NVME main drive

Where a QLC drive is NOT suitable is:
1) something that writes large amounts of data continually such as a database server or perhaps a graphics/video workstation as the cache will be permanently full
2) a drive that is permanently full as you will have a very small write cache
3) use cases where TBW actually matters

Last edited by clannagh; 06-11-2020 at 05:21 PM.
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 06:07 PM
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Given the size of one dataset I've just inherited (and how unbelievably slow it is working from a HDD, because the drive is thrashing constantly as data is read (semi-)stochastically) I would actually be kind of interested in this.

But QLC...

Sadly, alternatives are limited and here in Japan the Sabrent 4TB M.2 TLC drives are... well... insanely priced, otherwise I'd stuff four of them into a PCI-E quad M.2 card and have done with it.

edit: It would also be pretty awesome to have 16TB of storage in my 1.1KG laptop...


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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 06:12 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post
It has to be limited to slow speeds, otherwise you fill up the SLC cache in no time and then you get 30MB/s write speeds from the QLC. Because it is sata, you are less likely to find out how slow this drive really is.
Even if a QLC SSD is SATA, it will have slower writes than a TLC, especially as the drive approaches half full.

Quote: Originally Posted by Baasha View Post
What is the difference between the Rocket and Rocket Q? I have 2x of the 4TB Rocket NVMe's in RAID-0 - they were $850 each. In real world performance, will the 8TB Rocket Q perform similarly to the 'regular' Rocket series?
No. QLC is slower than TLC or MLC and keeps getting slower the more the drive fills up. Adding insult to injury, the cells in QLC SSDs have 16 voltage stated crammed into each one which can cause charge leaskage that will cause data corruption and loss as the write count on the cell accumulate, which is one reason why QLC SSDs have shorter warranties.

QLC is currently at the stage where TLC was for a short while after TLC came out. QLC will probably improve over time and become as reliable as TLC but it will be a while before that happens.

Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
No, The 8TB Rocket Q is also QLC, instead of TLC on the 4TB Rocket. TLC is faster and higher endurance than QLC. That the 8TB is 2x the price of the 4TB almost seems like a scam.

I am still coming to terms with MLC being considered the good stuff (3D Xpoint killed SLC but no one used it even before that). I still don't actually own any TLC but I might be willing for my next drive. QLC is pushing this tech too far in the direction of lower performance, lower endurance, for a lower price. I want faster NAND, not slower.
Larger drives always cost more per GB than older, smaller drives if only due to the need to recover tooling and R&D costs.

Quote: Originally Posted by speed_demon View Post
This would almost be appealing for those stuck with a laptop's drive size limitation - I know of a handful of Clevo/Sager's that have 2x 2.5" drive slots and know of plenty more laptops with a single 2.5" slot for upgrades, but have never heard of one with a 3.5" drive space where you could install a typical 8TB drive into. So there might be a limited market for people there.

Actually come to think of it, my old Clevo had 2x 2.5" slots and 2x NVMe slots so in theory with enough dough I could have gone wild and had 24TB worth of solid state storage onboard, with nearly no penalty to weight. That would be pretty nuts lol.
I recently bought a System 76 Linux version of the Clevos you are describing. It's a fairly nice machine but they should have used an AMD graphics card instead of NVIDIA. NVIDIA does not play well with Linux (I share Linus Torvalds' opinion of Linux ( youtu.be/iYWzMvlj2RQ ). I spent the higher price for System 76 because of their reputation for good tech help. That has turned out to be overrated.

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Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald; 06-11-2020 at 06:22 PM.
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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ozlay View Post
I think it would make a good game drive. As long as the reads are high.



The Sabrent Rocket Q 8TB is already out. But it is $1499
No, it's not out yet (at least on Amazon). It's on preorder there. Amazon's listing is a bit contradictory. The listing says it arrive June 19-23 then says fastest delivery is June 16th. Hunh?

Even more "interesting" are the 767 ratings (aka reviews) shown for it. Amazon's one of the despicable vendors that lump the reviews of "similar" products together (as far as I'm concerned, it's lying!).

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Last edited by Lady Fitzgerald; 06-11-2020 at 06:20 PM.
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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 08:02 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald View Post
No, it's not out yet (at least on Amazon). It's on preorder there. Amazon's listing is a bit contradictory. The listing says it arrive June 19-23 then says fastest delivery is June 16th. Hunh?

Even more "interesting" are the 767 ratings (aka reviews) shown for it. Amazon's one of the despicable vendors that lump the reviews of "similar" products together (as far as I'm concerned, it's lying!).
Amazon is good at contradictory.

And the "similar reviews" thing has caught me by surprise in the past. Reading verified reviews, thinking, "wow, a lot of people have bought this considering it's been out two days", but no, it's actually reviews of the older model with half the capacity (or whatever). It's even more ridiculous when they do it for Kindle reviews and the reviewers are talking about the physical book...


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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-11-2020, 09:47 PM
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In theory QVOs should benefit in both TBW and cache size from going larger capacity ... but that is beside the point, review for a recently announced, but not yet available, model are impossible.
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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-12-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
QLC is how the industry is trying to lower prices. I have several spinning rust drives for anything giant. I would prefer NAND to get cheaper too but spinning rust also gets cheaper, if "4x the cost over HDD" is a barrier simply moving to QLC, or even PLC, is only keeping pace. The downsides of QLC are too high to be worth the price difference over TLC. That Intel is spending R&D budget on PLC is annoying, maybe research better TLC instead?

These random price spikes are due to a "free market" with only a few suppliers, you always get issues like this with too few actors and huge barriers to entry (both capital and IP). I am not sure how to deal with these issues, IP reform is hard and regulating prices isn't going to work long term.
Yet cheapest is TLC not QLC In theory, yes QLC should sell for less and for M.2 format drives it's there on par with TLC at the bottom. For 2.5" SATA it's not even close because Samsung QLC is pricey and Samsung sells their QLC for what others sell TLC for, any cost savings going straight to Samsung.
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 06-12-2020, 07:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
QLC is how the industry is trying to lower prices. I have several spinning rust drives for anything giant. I would prefer NAND to get cheaper too but spinning rust also gets cheaper, if "4x the cost over HDD" is a barrier simply moving to QLC, or even PLC, is only keeping pace. The downsides of QLC are too high to be worth the price difference over TLC. That Intel is spending R&D budget on PLC is annoying, maybe research better TLC instead?

These random price spikes are due to a "free market" with only a few suppliers, you always get issues like this with too few actors and huge barriers to entry (both capital and IP). I am not sure how to deal with these issues, IP reform is hard and regulating prices isn't going to work long term.

Because it's not a free market and IP is a B.S. barrier. IP should last 1 year. If you can't or won't bring your technology to market others will. Once you eliminate the IP barrier a lot of competitors arise. Look at China, they don't give a damn about IP and they've done quite well because of that.

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