[Phoronix] Apple Confirms Their Future Desktops + Laptops Will Use In-House CPUs - Page 8 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community
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[Phoronix] Apple Confirms Their Future Desktops + Laptops Will Use In-House CPUs

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post #71 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 07:11 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Defoler View Post
A few things about it.

Buying intel chips and chipsets and building custom boards for both based on intel specs also cost money, or being stuck to intel issues (like being stuck at 10/14nm, lower speeds memory etc).
Apple are selling about 18M macs (imac, mac mini, macbook) a year. They also need to keep the macos intel based while they are keeping ios, ipados and iwatchos based on ARM. So I wouldn't call it "low volume". If this can reduce price and increase performance as well as make their hardware even more co-exist, this could increase in sales.

Nvidia's case is also completely different, because nvidia produced their SoC and then stated to look who to sell it to. And while their SoC were powerful, they were also pretty power hungry back then and had to compete with qualcomm which basically control the non apple phone market.
Unlike nvidia, apple have the hardware to put those SoC in. And by making it fully unified, you can put ios apps on imacs and vice versa, they can completely control the hardware firmware and low level coding, etc.

Overall, the move makes a lot of sense. It has great future usage if done right. And I'm sure apple already put in the numbers and did the majority of tests to know if this is viable or not.
This is also a point that separate nvidia from apple. Nvidia are creating the hardware they want and then try to find a market for it. Apple make the hardware after they have the need for it.
Like I said before.

Apple's SoC in the non PRO mac products is clearly a good move. These are the machines Apple sells the most of. Apple's sales of 16" Macbook Pros, iMac Pros, and Mac Pros are actually pretty small overall.


Creating a 16-32+ Core SoC with a large amount of IO (something current apple silicon does not have) is going to be expensive. Especially for a few products that apple doesn't sell in high quantities. What else is apple going to do with a 65watt+ SoC? They could try to get back into the server game, but that never really worked out for them. Not only that, but they don't seem to have any plans to get into the cloud market.

But who knows, maybe a push to build a large SoC will push them into the Cloud market with server hardware build on their own silicon.
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post #72 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 08:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by aayman_farzand View Post
You know...they actually did show a slide showing exactly what their target is and it literally goes against the first half of your statement.

There's no reason to speculate so much at the moment. More tangible numbers will show up soon enough, and it will be very unlike Apple (or most companies for the matter) to have a performance downgrade at the same price points.
Showing one slide does not mean they have an equal product.

Apple not downgrading their product? Did you miss how Apple intentionally slowed down previous gen phones and tablets just to force people to buy new ones? Their user base generally speaking only sees the fruit logo on the back of the device, beyond that most of their users haven't got the slightest clue as to what their devices run and don't care because dat Apple maaan!

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post #73 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 12:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
Apple not downgrading their product? Did you miss how Apple intentionally slowed down previous gen phones and tablets just to force people to buy new ones? Their user base generally speaking only sees the fruit logo on the back of the device, beyond that most of their users haven't got the slightest clue as to what their devices run and don't care because dat Apple maaan!
I was obviously talking about going from one generation to the next, that has yet to happen. Even the 6S battery thing has a proper explanation, they were at fault of doing it without informing the user. Performance immediately goes back up after replacing the battery.
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post #74 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
Showing one slide does not mean they have an equal product.

Apple not downgrading their product? Did you miss how Apple intentionally slowed down previous gen phones and tablets just to force people to buy new ones? Their user base generally speaking only sees the fruit logo on the back of the device, beyond that most of their users haven't got the slightest clue as to what their devices run and don't care because dat Apple maaan!
Miss information, they slowed down phones to prevent them from randomly powering off. As soon as a healthy battery is installed the phones run fine.

If they wanted users to switch as often as you say than why not kill OS support like Android phones which only get two years?

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post #75 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 01:58 PM
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oh god, here we go again.

Mr. Life is only ever what the official story states.

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post #76 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by skupples View Post
oh god, here we go again.

Mr. Life is only ever what the official story states.
I was working at a third party repair shop where we had multiple customers complain about their iPhone 6s randomly shutting off which was due to an unhealthy battery. Apple certified stores have access to GSX which let them run their internal diagnostics which showed an unhealthy battery. After the iOS update 10.2.1 we noticed a decrease of customers coming in for random shut downs.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208011#10

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iOS 10.2.1 includes bug fixes and improves the security of your iPhone or iPad.

It also improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone.

For information on the security content of Apple software updates, please visit this website: Apple security updates

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post #77 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 09:13 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Awsan View Post
It's Apple they have the money and the R&D power.

True there are 10 other smarter options, even collaborate with AMD and make insane CPUs within those 2 years, but its Apple they want everything to be inhouse and there is not better candidate for that (Samsung already do everything inhouse)
They definitely have the money to do it, but I question that they will without financial incentive. It really depends on how much it's going to cost, something that I definitely don't know... but yeah I'm skeptical.

I certainly wouldn't be unhappy for Apple to try and create a CPU that is on par with Intel and AMD...

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post #78 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-29-2020, 11:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by steelbom View Post
They definitely have the money to do it, but I question that they will without financial incentive. It really depends on how much it's going to cost, something that I definitely don't know... but yeah I'm skeptical.

I certainly wouldn't be unhappy for Apple to try and create a CPU that is on par with Intel and AMD...
If money could solve all problems Intel wouldn't be stuck on 14nm++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still and would be on 5nm already. Apple have a very small segment of the PC market and can't influence x86 yet, the best they can do is what they are doing now: port iOS to their laptops and desktops. I am certain Apple could very easily create extreme high performing chips but the power consumption would be equal to x86 and thus would serve no purpose to the average user, other than save Apple money.


However, if ARM want to replace x86 they will need to make large, high speed, high IPC (resulting in high IPS) chips and not just creating high core count CPU's. That works in servers and mainframes as tasks are highly threaded in nature, whereas the PC market has a totally different need and creating 80 core chips is useless. We can already see that a 3.3GHz ARM chip can't compete with a 3.3GHz x86 chip as they lack IPC. Of course clock speed is just one aspect of the problem: if ARM can create a 100GHz chip that can compete with current CPU's without becoming yet another BD, KFC or BD fiasco nobody will care, all that matters is performance but ARM can't create such a chip and Intel nor AMD are going to sit still and wait to become obsolete, thus ARM will have a really hard time competing with x86 in the desktop market. As for their dominance in the server market, it's obvious that Graviton serves specific purposes and eMag is pointless, thus even in the server space ARM aren't the clear winner as we haven't seen the next series Epyc yet.

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post #79 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 02:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
If money could solve all problems Intel wouldn't be stuck on 14nm++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still and would be on 5nm already. Apple have a very small segment of the PC market and can't influence x86 yet, the best they can do is what they are doing now: port iOS to their laptops and desktops. I am certain Apple could very easily create extreme high performing chips but the power consumption would be equal to x86 and thus would serve no purpose to the average user, other than save Apple money.


However, if ARM want to replace x86 they will need to make large, high speed, high IPC (resulting in high IPS) chips and not just creating high core count CPU's. That works in servers and mainframes as tasks are highly threaded in nature, whereas the PC market has a totally different need and creating 80 core chips is useless. We can already see that a 3.3GHz ARM chip can't compete with a 3.3GHz x86 chip as they lack IPC. Of course clock speed is just one aspect of the problem: if ARM can create a 100GHz chip that can compete with current CPU's without becoming yet another BD, KFC or BD fiasco nobody will care, all that matters is performance but ARM can't create such a chip and Intel nor AMD are going to sit still and wait to become obsolete, thus ARM will have a really hard time competing with x86 in the desktop market. As for their dominance in the server market, it's obvious that Graviton serves specific purposes and eMag is pointless, thus even in the server space ARM aren't the clear winner as we haven't seen the next series Epyc yet.
Yep, I agree completely. Personally, I think all the compatibility issues this change invites is not worth it, but Apple does what Apple does.

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post #80 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-30-2020, 05:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
And from the very article you linked:

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Still, the MT results, while beating the Intel system, still don’t look all that great when considering the fact that we’re talking about 8 cores vs 32 cores. A 400% advantage in cores for only a 30% performance advantage
There's no way Apple are going to develop their own custom ARM chip with a TDP close to any desktop or enterprise class Intel or AMD CPU with comparable performance single or multi threaded.

For ultra low powered devices, it's a great idea. But not a chance Apple will develop anything that comes close to AMD or Intel in the high powered side.

Not just that, but what expertise do Apple have when it comes to the IO side. There's a vast difference between the basic and limited IO featured in their iOS devices and that in even a run of the mill consumer AMD or Intel desktop platform yet alone their enterprise offerings.


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