[Tom's Hardware] Linus Torvalds Wishes Intel's AVX-512 A Painful Death - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Tom's Hardware] Linus Torvalds Wishes Intel's AVX-512 A Painful Death

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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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[Tom's Hardware] Linus Torvalds Wishes Intel's AVX-512 A Painful Death

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news...-painful-death

Quote:
According to a mailing list post spotted by Phoronix, Linux creator Linus Torvalds has shared his strong views on the AVX-512 instruction set. The discussion arose as a result of recent news that Intel's upcoming Alder Lake processors reportedly lack support for AVX-512.

Torvalds' advice to Intel is to focus on things that matter instead of wasting resources on new instruction sets, like AVX-512, that he feels aren't beneficial outside the HPC market.

AVX-512 support debuted in Intel's Xeon Phi x200 (codename Knights Landing) processor in 2016. However, the instruction set later made its way into the chipmaker's other offerings, such as Skylake-SP, Skylake-X, Cannon Lake and Cascade Lake. Currently, Intel's both Cooper Lake and Ice Lake processors support certain AVX-512 subsets. While Alder Lake seemingly lacks AVX-512, the chipmaker has confirmed that Tiger Lake will exploit the instruction set.
Kinda shocked by his rant. Sounds like a fanboy ranting about something his chip isn't capable of. That's exactly what it's for, HPC. Someone needs to compete with nVidia.

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:06 PM
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Didn't he just build a threadripper machine.
Crying about it won't do anything.

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:19 PM
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He has no brand allegiances as such he can fairly freely discuss technical topics of which he may know more than others at times and which may be hard to hear for those affected, such as all the Intel problems in recent years.
Says it how it is, whether Intel fanboyz will be crying or not.

This is not limited to Intel, goes for any problem. He made his empire and doesn't have to please people, plus the mailing lists are old thing and "easy" to read.
Where as other people prefer to shout on twitter.
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:21 PM
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"I hope AVX512 dies a painful death, and that Intel starts fixing real problems instead of trying to create magic instructions to then create benchmarks that they can look good on."

He's not wrong.

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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:43 PM
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After reading the article, I can't say I disagree with what he said.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 04:46 PM
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Here's a different opinion of AVX-512 (from: https://www.prowesscorp.com/what-is-...oes-it-matter/). Just because it's useless to Linus Torvalds doesn't mean other people can't find a use for them.

Intel AVX-512 can accelerate performance for workloads and use cases such as scientific simulations, financial analytics, artificial intelligence (AI)/deep learning, 3D modeling and analysis, image and audio/video processing, cryptography, and data compression.

Intel AVX-512 can also help data centers more efficiently use available storage resources. Simply put, it accelerates storage functions, such as deduplication, encryption, compression, and decompression. It accomplishes this by doubling the number of bits in the register from 256 to 512 (see an illustrative animation here). In fact, it calculates storage functions in half the time of the previous generation.

This acceleration has a number of use cases:

63 times faster high-performance computing*
2 times faster AI/deep learning*
1 times faster cryptographic hashing performance*
2 times faster data protection*

This exceptional processing of encryption algorithms helps reduce the performance overhead for cryptography, which means you can deploy more secure data and services into distributed environments without compromising performance.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 05:24 PM
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the creator of linux has a strong opinion about something?


shocking, truly.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
He has no brand allegiances as such he can fairly freely discuss technical topics of which he may know more than others at times and which may be hard to hear for those affected, such as all the Intel problems in recent years.
Says it how it is, whether Intel fanboyz will be crying or not.

This is not limited to Intel, goes for any problem. He made his empire and doesn't have to please people, plus the mailing lists are old thing and "easy" to read.
Where as other people prefer to shout on twitter.
He is biased and mentions it multiple times. He keeps saying it's a waste of time but researchers have proven it to be quicker than GPUs by quite a large amount.

https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/...rpostid=193203

Quote:
Anyway, I would like to point out (again) that I'm very very biased. I seriously have an irrational hatred of vector units and FP benchmarks. I'll be very open about it. I think they are largely a complete waste of transistors and effort, and I think the amount of time spent on them - both by hardware people and by software people trying to use them - has been largely been time wasted.

So I'm exaggerating and overstating things to the point of half kidding. But only half. I'm taking a fairly extreme standpoint, and I know my hatred isn't really rational, but just a personal quirk and just pure unadulterated opinionated ranting.
https://github.com/keroro824/HashingDeepLearning

https://www.hpcwire.com/off-the-wire...pus-than-gpus/

Edit: His argument is related to Intel segmenting their chips with AVX-512. I'm sure regular consumers would rather pay less to not have hardware and an instruction set that won't they be using than paying more for it. Take Nvidia's Tensor cores for example.

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 07:34 PM
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From what I read and from the following discussion on Phoronix, it seems Linus' issue with AVX-512 is more about how Intel is handling it in their CPUs. Apparently there are many implementations that are segmented across many different CPU lines, which is far from ideal.

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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-12-2020, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by Melcar View Post
From what I read and from the following discussion on Phoronix, it seems Linus' issue with AVX-512 is more about how Intel is handling it in their CPUs. Apparently there are many implementations that are segmented across many different CPU lines, which is far from ideal.
It's no surprise Alder Lake doesn't have AVX-512. Lakefield also doesn't have any AVX instructions even though they have 1 sunny cove core. Ice Lake(Sunny Cove cores) and Tiger Lake(Willow Cove cores) support AVX-512. We won't see AVX-512 on the mainstream chipsets until they release their next generation architecture in 2022.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...-3-90-ghz.html

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