[Anandtech] At last, A 2.5Gbps Consumer Network Switch - Qnap's New 5 Port Switch - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Anandtech] At last, A 2.5Gbps Consumer Network Switch - Qnap's New 5 Port Switch

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 04:51 PM
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not really all that impressive, if you can deal with SFP+ you have been able to get a 10 GbE switch from MikroTik for the same price for years now

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 05:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by The Pook View Post
not really all that impressive, if you can deal with SFP+ you have been able to get a 10 GbE switch from MikroTik for the same price for years now
And SFP+ is just expensive and pain compared to plain RJ45 Cat5E.

I have a 20m Cat6 SFTP line going from a gigabit switch two floors down to the basement where my NAS resides.
With SFP+ wire prices it would be just crazy.

If the 2.5Gbit switches get even cheaper then I will just upgrade my main gigabit switch and buy those sub-20USD cards to upgrade NAS and PC's to a better standard.

I mean, my internet sucks at 7Mbit/s so I pretty much download all my stuff on NAS and play/transfer it from there.
6x2TB RAID6 array can push more than the gigabit network can offer.
If I could get to around 200MB/s I would be happy.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Baasha View Post
Looks interesting. Will be interested in trying it out.

The main thing is, however, no decent ISP in the US provides more than 1Gbps up & down - and that too very inconsistently - for home users. Of course, huge companies can have 10Gbps (or even 100Gbps) but that's irrelevant here.

Xfinity Gigabit "Pro" is the only option for 2.5Gbps up/down but that's available in like 5 cities in the entire US.
This is not technically true, we are testing 2gig symmetrical in Quad cities area that I know of. Supposed to launch by end of year.
We are also I think it was 98 or 99.8 percent 1gig capable for our entire system footprint currently. Google zipcode 42717 for an example of rural Kentucky with 1gig access.
It was also stated that we are not stopping at 2gig symmetrical, that 10gig service is on the roadmap.

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You're just nitpicking words now. I was talking about in terms of performance, those are the only measurements that matter. Not IPC or clock speed.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pawelr98 View Post
And SFP+ is just expensive and pain compared to plain RJ45 Cat5E.
SFP+ is pretty nice to use, it is my favorite networking standard. I use QFSP+ now, but it is too large, SFP+ supports fiber (long runs) or copper (short runs) without being so large. It is tricky to fit on a motherboard though, a better form factor seems possible. We are going to have to stop trying to use super cheap twisted pair wires at some point and I think it is past time to start mass adopting the next thing.

The problem with trying to keep using twisted pair is obvious by the exciting new release of a reasonably affordable 2.5 Gbps consumer grade switch in 2020. I got my first 100 Mbps NIC at most a few years after my first 10 Mbps one, and my first 1 Gbps was very soon after that. My first 10 Gbps NIC was over a decade later and used SFP+. I still do not have a nice 5-8 port SFP+ hub at a reasonable price, because there is no market for one because everyone wants to keep using the Cat5e they laid down for gigabit. SFP+ is never going to be as cheap as RJ45 but RJ45 is never going to be as fast as SFP+. The RJ45 NIC on motherboards seems to be getting slower? First there were some 10 Gbps ones, then some 5 Gbps, and now we are on 2.5 Gbps? I suspect too many complaints of the faster modes not working over the wires people had.

Right now the only other option is SFP+, but it wasn't designed for consumers so we have a weird lack of an appropriate connector. An ultrabook with an SFP+ port would be pretty sweet. A USB-C 100 Gbps fiber dongle? I suppose it is more likely to be a SFP+ base station and wireless for ultrabooks.

I think technology today could scale up 10 Gbps SFP+ fiber transceivers enough that they could be somewhat affordable, at least for those who want more than 1 Gbps. 10 Gbps even over CAT6/7 isn't very reliable at any distance while single mode fiber can do 2km runs and 100m is easy with multimode fiber. The fiber itself is also cheap, it is only the transceivers that are still pretty expensive. Multimode transceivers are a bit cheaper but the fiber costs more. They are all getting cheaper due to the growth in data centers but since the market is all business to business prices are not being pushed as aggressively as they could be.

I do see SFP+ in a few high end consumer routers and similar so there is hope. We have nothing else.

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 06:49 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
SFP+ is pretty nice to use, it is my favorite networking standard. I use QFSP+ now, but it is too large, SFP+ supports fiber (long runs) or copper (short runs) without being so large. It is tricky to fit on a motherboard though, a better form factor seems possible. We are going to have to stop trying to use super cheap twisted pair wires at some point and I think it is past time to start mass adopting the next thing.

The problem with trying to keep using twisted pair is obvious by the exciting new release of a reasonably affordable 2.5 Gbps consumer grade switch in 2020. I got my first 100 Mbps NIC at most a few years after my first 10 Mbps one, and my first 1 Gbps was very soon after that. My first 10 Gbps NIC was over a decade later and used SFP+. I still do not have a nice 5-8 port SFP+ hub at a reasonable price, because there is no market for one because everyone wants to keep using the Cat5e they laid down for gigabit. SFP+ is never going to be as cheap as RJ45 but RJ45 is never going to be as fast as SFP+. The RJ45 NIC on motherboards seems to be getting slower? First there were some 10 Gbps ones, then some 5 Gbps, and now we are on 2.5 Gbps? I suspect too many complaints of the faster modes not working over the wires people had.

Right now the only other option is SFP+, but it wasn't designed for consumers so we have a weird lack of an appropriate connector. An ultrabook with an SFP+ port would be pretty sweet. A USB-C 100 Gbps fiber dongle? I suppose it is more likely to be a SFP+ base station and wireless for ultrabooks.

I think technology today could scale up 10 Gbps SFP+ fiber transceivers enough that they could be somewhat affordable, at least for those who want more than 1 Gbps. 10 Gbps even over CAT6/7 isn't very reliable at any distance while single mode fiber can do 2km runs and 100m is easy with multimode fiber. The fiber itself is also cheap, it is only the transceivers that are still pretty expensive. Multimode transceivers are a bit cheaper but the fiber costs more. They are all getting cheaper due to the growth in data centers but since the market is all business to business prices are not being pushed as aggressively as they could be.

I do see SFP+ in a few high end consumer routers and similar so there is hope. We have nothing else.
There's also homes that forgo high end consumer routers and go enteprise/smb level. I am one of them using an 50 port Cisco SMB router with SPF+ (multiple). The only mistake i made was getting the fortinet 60e (should have gotten the 80e) with sfp+ module . Ig support. I got to get an fortinet router with that support in the future. Then I got to place 10GBE switches at various levels of the house to get around the Cat 5e cabling issue (can't do anything when they are embeeded inside the dry wall).

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 07:09 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Pawelr98 View Post
And SFP+ is just expensive and pain compared to plain RJ45 Cat5E.

I have a 20m Cat6 SFTP line going from a gigabit switch two floors down to the basement where my NAS resides.
With SFP+ wire prices it would be just crazy.

If the 2.5Gbit switches get even cheaper then I will just upgrade my main gigabit switch and buy those sub-20USD cards to upgrade NAS and PC's to a better standard.

I mean, my internet sucks at 7Mbit/s so I pretty much download all my stuff on NAS and play/transfer it from there.
6x2TB RAID6 array can push more than the gigabit network can offer.
If I could get to around 200MB/s I would be happy.
To clarify, here is no such thing as SFP "wire".

SFP/+ is a socket in which you either plug a DAC (direct attach cable, limited in length) or you slot in a transceiver which then goes into various sockets which are used by various fiber cables.

LC/LC is a common fiber type, and for 10gbps you'd need OM3 cable. You can get a 20m run of it easily enough;
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20M-OM3-LCU...r/233617217143

Then a couple cards such as a X520-DA1
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Int...m/162282220535

And a couple matching Transceivers;
https://www.fs.com/products/36431.html

And you got a 20 meter 10gbps link to your NAS for $128. Granted this is in USD, but the switch being discussed is $100 and you still have to actually buy the cards to support it anyway. 10gbps copper cost a heck of a lot more than that.

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-28-2020, 07:54 PM
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2x38USD for cards
2x18USD transceiver
And fiber cable.
All that 128USD.

And that's only a single link, without even having a switch to make that link available for all computers in my network.

With standard CAT cable network I can make a 2.5Gbit link at 2x15USD for 2.5Gbit cards + 10USD cable if I were to compare it directly.
And it's brand new equipment, not used cards like with SFP+.
I don't really care about used stuff (almost entire PC is used parts) but newer stuff generally gets longer software support and has warranty.
If a 2.5Gbit switch gets down to say 50USD from some cheap company like TPlink then I will jump on that.
And 2.5Gbit link can easily coexist with 1Gbit network beeing the same technology, 1Gbit devices work on 2.5Gbit switches and vice versa.
If I decide I just want to upgrade only my PC then I can just plug my brother's computer to 2.5Gbit switch and it will work at 1Gbit/s just fine.

At some point I even considered making my own 2.5Gbit switch using some cheap "BTC" multi-PCIE motherboard and few of those cards.
Wouldn't cost much more than the switch discussed. 75USD for the five network cards and rougly 50USD for the CPU+MB+RAM combo off used market.
And it could also serve all kinds of purposes, beeing a normal PC, like NAS, firewall and many other.

100USD is a bit too high, once it goes down into 50USD range it will be a popular option.
But at the same time 100USD is fairly low when compared to previous options (big server grade switches).
I expect this thing to start some competition in this sector of networking equipment and hopefully in a year or two cheaper 2.5Gbit switches will be available.

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