[nVidia] NVIDIA DLSS: Your Questions, Answered - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[nVidia] NVIDIA DLSS: Your Questions, Answered

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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 03:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
I expected the GPU to be able to do this on it's own as you play the game and always be learning and getting better (to some extent).
Then you do not understand neural network training. Once out of the data center no neural networks keep learning. A user device might send data back to a data center to add to a training data set but you need labeled data, you cannot use data for training without labels. Where is the ground truth image coming from if nothing is rendering the game at the full resolution with 8x SSAA? Even if you were to render the ground truth image the math for the back propagation (how the weights are updated during training) makes running the neural network forward look free. This is actually part of the power of them, a trained neural network is relatively cheap computationally, compared to the amount of intelligence potentially built into them.

What I want to see out of DLSS tech is simply AA, I want to render a game at 4K and use the tensor cores to make it look like it has 8x SSAA for less of a hit than 2x SSAA. This also seems realistic, while upscaling a lower resolution to look like 4K with 8xSSAA is not.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Only 7 days? So Nvidia doesn't help with the coding of the game at all? They had no idea DLSS didn't work on launch day? They had no access to the beta or even alpha to ensure that their customers would be satisfied with not only their hardware but their software? Didn't they say they'd be working with devs to help implement these features? If this is to be adopted in many games how are they going to cope with that? Or is this just smoke and mirrors to sell hardware that they needed for something else entirely?
Oh yeah and they only improved a single resolution. Wth? Is 1080p going to take another 7? There are so many different resolutions and aspect ratios for which they sold different teirs of cards. Maybe they helped the 2080ti guys here but what about the 2060? They wait another 7 days while Nvidia sorts out something that should have been sorted out on launch day?
Where was this enthusiasm when AMD advertised performance gains with Primitive Shaders that never received support and completely dropped for Vega(GFX9)? It's new, we see the improvement and performance increase. Rapid Packed Math has lower image quality since it's half precision but yet everyone was cheering for the performance increase.

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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-27-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
Where was this enthusiasm when AMD advertised performance gains with Primitive Shaders that never received support and completely dropped for Vega(GFX9)? It's new, we see the improvement and performance increase. Rapid Packed Math has lower image quality since it's half precision but yet everyone was cheering for the performance increase.
That's fine with me too...unless you have to spend 60% more to get it. I have no qualms with what Nvidia is doing, the issue is charging such a massive amount for it and having a poor implementation at the same time.
On top of the "the more you buy, the more you save" slogan (which wasn't/isn't true), they'll be saying '"saving you money by making you wait till Nvidia titles go on sale so you can finally appreciate the features you paid generously for".


Also I had no input on RPM, still don't...unless they were going to charge more for it.
If PRM provided a 50% performance increase with a 10% reduction in IQ isn't it possible to just down sample until you're at the same frame rate you'd have had without RPM and actually get better IQ? Just thinking out loud.

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-28-2019, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
That's fine with me too...unless you have to spend 60% more to get it. I have no qualms with what Nvidia is doing, the issue is charging such a massive amount for it and having a poor implementation at the same time.
On top of the "the more you buy, the more you save" slogan (which wasn't/isn't true), they'll be saying '"saving you money by making you wait till Nvidia titles go on sale so you can finally appreciate the features you paid generously for".


Also I had no input on RPM, still don't...unless they were going to charge more for it.
If PRM provided a 50% performance increase with a 10% reduction in IQ isn't it possible to just down sample until you're at the same frame rate you'd have had without RPM and actually get better IQ? Just thinking out loud.
"The more you buy, the more you save" slogan was at GTC which is for their datacenter GPUs/Workstation which is true. The time saved with using GPU acceleration allows them to save money. Time is money for those customers. DxR isn't a nVidia feature, the hardware they provide has support for DxR. DxR was released with the re-release of Windows 10 version 1809 on November 13, 2018 and we had Battlefield V DxR reviews on the 14th with the game release on November 20, 2018. All silicon hardware pricing will go up either due to expensive R&D cost for performance gains or R&D for node shrinks.

When have we had a DirectX API release with more than 5+ titles at launch in the last decade. There are only slightly over 40 DirectX 12 titles which was released July 29, 2015.

Even Lisa Su was hinting at expensive 7nm parts at CES.

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“But frankly, life got a little more difficult. Over the last 10 years that trend has gotten slower. It places a significant premium on innovation."

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 05:03 AM
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I wonder how nvidia is training their networks. I would think they would train in textures and other assets separately so the network would know how they should look at a lot of angles, etc. But since it's very resolution based, it seems like they're rendering the game at different angles and training on just complete images. That doesn't make sense to me. Also, they should have easy access to depth and edge information; so why can't they also just make a good edge AA option with it?

DLSS is looking extremely half-baked.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 11:18 AM
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@WannaBeOCer So Tesla abandoning NVidia hardware for autonomouse driving has nothing to do with these expensive extra hardware ending up on gaming cards, that is currently nothing more than a graphics niche?

If it was too expensive for Tesla...

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 01:10 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post
@WannaBeOCer So Tesla abandoning NVidia hardware for autonomouse driving has nothing to do with these expensive extra hardware ending up on gaming cards, that is currently nothing more than a graphics niche?

If it was too expensive for Tesla...
Even their repurposing for the consumer market was considered too expensive. Elon Musk actually reacted to the new nVidia pricing.


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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
Even their repurposing for the consumer market was considered too expensive. Elon Musk actually reacted to the new nVidia pricing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZxsFlmBEFY
Get out of here with that fake video. Video cards are great for many task but specialized AI hardware will always be quicker. Just look at Habana's AIP performance: https://habana.ai/

5:22 actual reason he was laughing.


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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
Get out of here with that fake video.
So, you link a meme review video without understanding memes?

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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ToTheSun! View Post
So, you link a meme review video without understanding memes?
He's hurt. Leave the guy alone.

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