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[Anandtech]Microsoft brings DX12 to Windows 7

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post #11 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:06 PM
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Probably pressure from developers willing to move to Vulkan, so M$ throws them a bone to keep them on their API.

What on earth people love about Win7 I don't understand since even 8.1 was better than 7. And 7 was slower than XP.
It's more about GUI changes and not actual performance why people stick with something they are visually familiar with.
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post #12 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:14 PM
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I'm guessing this related to Halo and means Halo on PC will be DX12. They know Halo is going to sell like hot cakes and they don't want to miss out on any big chunks of the market.

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post #13 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:25 PM
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It helps explain why Blizz bothered giving WoW the dx12 treatment considering the age of a lot of their playerbase's systems.

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post #14 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 08:33 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Probably pressure from developers willing to move to Vulkan, so M$ throws them a bone to keep them on their API.

What on earth people love about Win7 I don't understand since even 8.1 was better than 7. And 7 was slower than XP.
It's more about GUI changes and not actual performance why people stick with something they are visually familiar with.

It's more about freedom and control and not having Microsoft force updates down your throat.


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post #15 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Probably pressure from developers willing to move to Vulkan, so M$ throws them a bone to keep them on their API.

What on earth people love about Win7 I don't understand since even 8.1 was better than 7. And 7 was slower than XP.
It's more about GUI changes and not actual performance why people stick with something they are visually familiar with.

Quote: Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post
It's more about freedom and control and not having Microsoft force updates down your throat.

I can go back all the way to Win 3.11 (inherited as a youngster on my first hand-me-down computer), then Win95/98, XP / 64, Vista (for '20 sec'), Win 7 64, 8, 8.1 and 10. I also had an early developer copy of Win 10. In addition, several different Windows Server versions including late-model ones.

It's not that I'm set in my ways re. GUI familiarity - if that would be the case, I would still be running my fav out of the above > XP 64. Win 8 was a confusing attempt to make Win 7 look like an iPhone (IMO), while 8.1 fixed some Win 8 stuff. Apart from the updates being forced down your throat (which you can address with a registry edit), I find Win 10 slower in some apps, but most importantly, I'm annoyed by the constant push / 'merge' into Microsoft-recorded activities, clouds, stores...it's just too nosy and pushy in the privacy of my home or work office. The GUI is the one thing I don't mind about Win 10...
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post #16 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:33 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
Probably pressure from developers willing to move to Vulkan, so M$ throws them a bone to keep them on their API.

What on earth people love about Win7 I don't understand since even 8.1 was better than 7. And 7 was slower than XP.
It's more about GUI changes and not actual performance why people stick with something they are visually familiar with.

Quote: Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post
It's more about freedom and control and not having Microsoft force updates down your throat.

This, it was very clear even in Windows 8 and 8.1, with deceptive attempts to get people to create a Microsoft account; putting Bing search results into the search function; not allowing the Store to be uninstalled; trying to deprecate Win32 applications; instrumentalizing the 8.1 Upgrade, which was a Service Pack needed to keep the OS under support, by distributing it through the Windows Store instead of the normal Windows Update mechanism, thus creating problems for several people; the OneDrive deep integration; the mouse latency problems in games that needed a patch, etc.

Windows 8 was a transitional product that was launched before being ready, with numerous bugs - per Intel CEO's words (and arguably never became ready) that Microsoft used as a playground to make several experiments in their efforts to catch up in the mobile front, to the detriment of desktop users with its workflow breaking changes that they had to partially revert with 8.1 and then with the "Update" and then only RT users got a Start Menu, but also to the detriment of mobile users, as once again they broke compatibility; Metro apps were short lived and the newer UWP is not backwards compatible.

Regarding XP vs 7, it's very difficult to compare both because the former only has a 32-bit version for consumers, the scheduler wasn't optimized for more than two cores, with Vista and later thus performing better on quad cores and beyond, and XP also lacks support for TRIM and AVX.

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post #17 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by white owl View Post
Man I don't even know what to say. I honestly feel like games are held back because they can't fully support 12 alone. Since most people don't know how to control 10 (or don't feel that they should have to) they're going to stay on 7 for as long as they possibly can. Not putting 12 on 7 and drastically changing what the OS manages on 10 are both big factors here, I love 10 personally but I'd never use it in it's vanilla flavor. Installing bloatware even after you delete it is a serious slap in the face and it's only a small part of my issues with the way 10 works.

Maybe MS will see that all this is preventing 12 from really being utilized and make some changes.

Quote: Originally Posted by nvidiaftw12 View Post
It's more about freedom and control and not having Microsoft force updates down your throat.
See what I mean?
Here on a PC enthusiast forum it blows my mind just how easily most people accept defeat from MS (who makes the most commonly hacked OS). Turning off the new "features" was the first thing I did when it was in beta. Checked some boxes IIRC and it was done. FWIW this wasn't something exclusive to 10, I did a lot of the same edits on 7. Now I just have a few extra boxes to check, no biggie. Actually it's much easier to do this on 10 using stand alone tools like O&O.

I like 10 simply because after making it behave like 7 you're left with a much faster OS that's easier on resources, plus the search bar is on point and you don't have to bother with 99% of your drivers.


Quote: Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post
This, it was very clear even in Windows 8 and 8.1, with deceptive attempts to get people to create a Microsoft account; putting Bing search results into the search function; not allowing the Store to be uninstalled; trying to deprecate Win32 applications; instrumentalizing the 8.1 Upgrade, which was a Service Pack needed to keep the OS under support, by distributing it through the Windows Store instead of the normal Windows Update mechanism, thus creating problems for several people; the OneDrive deep integration; the mouse latency problems in games that needed a patch, etc.

Windows 8 was a transitional product that was launched before being ready, with numerous bugs - per Intel CEO's words (and arguably never became ready) that Microsoft used as a playground to make several experiments in their efforts to catch up in the mobile front, to the detriment of desktop users with its workflow breaking changes that they had to partially revert with 8.1 and then with the "Update" and then only RT users got a Start Menu, but also to the detriment of mobile users, as once again they broke compatibility; Metro apps were short lived and the newer UWP is not backwards compatible.

Regarding XP vs 7, it's very difficult to compare both because the former only has a 32-bit version for consumers, the scheduler wasn't optimized for more than two cores, with Vista and later thus performing better on quad cores and beyond, and XP also lacks support for TRIM and AVX.
8+ was utter garbage and hard to use so I had the beta installed for about 10 minutes before going back but all the things you mentioned can be turned off pretty easily in 10. I agree, people should have a choice but many of the reasons for not wanting to use 10 are totally invalid since it can all be turned off in under 30 seconds.

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Last edited by white owl; 03-12-2019 at 09:44 PM.
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post #18 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by J7SC View Post
I can go back all the way to Win 3.11 (inherited as a youngster on my first hand-me-down computer), then Win95/98, XP / 64, Vista (for '20 sec'), Win 7 64, 8, 8.1 and 10. I also had an early developer copy of Win 10. In addition, several different Windows Server versions including late-model ones.

It's not that I'm set in my ways re. GUI familiarity - if that would be the case, I would still be running my fav out of the above > XP 64. Win 8 was a confusing attempt to make Win 7 look like an iPhone (IMO), while 8.1 fixed some Win 8 stuff. Apart from the updates being forced down your throat (which you can address with a registry edit), I find Win 10 slower in some apps, but most importantly, I'm annoyed by the constant push / 'merge' into Microsoft-recorded activities, clouds, stores...it's just too nosy and pushy in the privacy of my home or work office. The GUI is the one thing I don't mind about Win 10...

Ha! I tried the registry hacks, I deleted the service, I listed all of my internets as "Metered", nothing I did could stop it from updating. A friend also fought his, including messing with powershell, and it kept coming back like an STD.


Simply put, I purely use my W7 computer. I never have to fool with anything. My 10 laptop is currently pretty stable with few updates, but I like to go for 6 months (1 semester) with zero shutdowns or downtime. Waking up to find everything I had open suddenly closed in absolutely unacceptable. I should be able to defer updates until a time that works for me. W10 does not offer that to me. I can argue this until I'm blue in the face with users here, but they will endlessly disagree. According to them, my OS shouldn't serve me how I see fit, but instead should serve Microsoft how they see fit.


There are plenty of other issues as well, such as Msoft's strong instance on using their default programs (try accidentally clicking a link on the lock screen wallpapers which mysteriously find their way onto your computer) and tell me if it doesn't open in edge. Edge isn't and never will be my default browser.


tl;dr it's not the gui at all. It's about control and who's 'top dawg' of my computer.


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post #19 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 10:12 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by UltraMega View Post
I'm guessing this related to Halo and means Halo on PC will be DX12. They know Halo is going to sell like hot cakes and they don't want to miss out on any big chunks of the market.
Yeah, I just heard about that. They are fifteen years too late for me to pay them for ANYTHING with the word Halo in the title. Especially since it will ALSO require a Microsoft account, and at this point I won't even buy another Uplay title unless I can easily get a No-Uplay crack for it so I'll be dammed before I open something with Microsoft. DX12 on Win7 is way too little too late to win over the new Linux converts, so going to guess that this has to do with Halo and that people really do hate Windows 10 too much to downgrade to it from an OS that doesn't hijack the system for a forced update, so I think that you're on target.

I calculated the odds of this succeeding versus the odds I was doing something incredibly stupid... and I went ahead anyway.

If it's not coming out for the PC, it's dead to me.
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post #20 of 93 (permalink) Old 03-12-2019, 11:22 PM
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i don't think this is even a proper DX12 implementation, more like a DX11 driver hack that tricks the game to run in DX12 mode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_levels_in_Direct3D

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Last edited by epic1337; 03-12-2019 at 11:25 PM.
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