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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-12-2019, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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[AMD] Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.8.1

Quote:
Radon Software Adrenalin 2019 Edition 19.8.1 Highlights

Support For

  • Microsoft® PlayReady®3.0
    • Supported on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.
Fixed Issues

  • Some system configurations may experience color corruption after install of Radeon Software when running Windows® 10 May 2019 update. Issue is resolved in the latest Windows® Update 18362.267 (KB4505903)
  • Radeon Chill settings may not sync with game profile settings when changed in-game through Radeon Overlay
  • Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products may experience a black screen or flickering when applying auto overclocking memory with games or applications running in fullscreen
  • Radeon AntiLag may slightly impact performance in select games
  • Radeon RX 5700 Series Graphics may experience a black screen during uninstall on Windows®7 system configurations. A work around is to perform uninstall in safe mode.
  • Recording clips with Radeon ReLive may result in blank clips on Radeon RX 5700 Series Graphics with Windows®7 system configurations.
Known Issues

  • Stutter may be experienced when Radeon FreeSync is enabled on 240hz refresh displays with Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.
  • Radeon Performance Metrics may report incorrect VRAM utilization.
  • AMD Radeon VII may experience elevated memory clocks at idle or on desktop.
  • Radeon Overlay may intermittently fail to appear when toggled in game.
  • Audio for clips captured by Radeon ReLive may be corrupted or garbled when desktop recording is enabled.
  • Enabling Enhanced Sync may cause game, application or system crashes on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products.

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/re...rad-win-19-8-1
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 03:32 AM
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This update supposedly fixed AntiLag's performance reduction. That's not the case for me at least in the Rainbow Six Siege benchmark.

AL on:
Min fps: 123 Avg: 340 Max: 474

AL off:
Min fps: 180 Avg 345 Max: 560

The min and max fps is certainly affected (on a 1st gen Vega), however the average fps isn't too dissimilar at all.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 06:58 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jonny321321 View Post

The min and max fps is certainly affected (on a 1st gen Vega), however the average fps isn't too dissimilar at all.
If I understand well, AL impact the timing for the frame display/rendering. Is'nt it normal that min and max FPS are modified ?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jiai View Post
If I understand well, AL impact the timing for the frame display/rendering. Is'nt it normal that min and max FPS are modified ?
To some degree yes however you don't use RAL to show highest frame rates either. You can think of AL something on the lines of High Precision Event Timer for AMD GPU's (in a sense). In other words, you don't enable HPET for most games to report the highest possible frame rates...well I hope you don't

RAL does work though. I've been testing it and it works best in button mashers, twitch shooters and racing sims where you need crisp precision. For games like Tomb Raider, Hitman, Battlefield, etc not so much.

However, for games like:
-Project Cars 1/2
-Blackops/MW
-IronSight
-Mortal Kombat, Injustice 1/2 and other combo button mashers
-etc
I've found an absolute difference in the responsiveness I need in order to execute certain maneuvers.
For example:
-I can consistently hit my apex in Project Cars 2 at the most optimum speeds.
-I can consistently pull combo moves, at will, ever time with MK/Injustice 1/2
-I can consistently pull 180's in BO4. Do come backs, and get the jump on a player face to face more often (which means I'm seeing them first).


Overall, this is my experience. I won't play those games without RAL from this point forward. And, I haven't notice any issues with frame rates. For optimal use of RAL you may consider being GPU limited. You can increase resolution or scaling to do so.

Last edited by EastCoast; 08-13-2019 at 10:56 AM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:21 AM
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390x no pixel format in the drivers thru hdmi for tv and can't undervolt at all artifacting at -1 mv
back to the older ones
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:33 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
To some degree yes however you don't use RAL to show highest frame rates either. You can think of AL something on the lines of High Precision Event Timer for AMD GPU's (in a sense). In other words, you don't enable HPET for most games to report the highest possible frame rates...well I hope you don't

RAL does work though. I've been testing it and it works best in button mashers, twitch shooters and racing sims where you need crisp precision. For games like Tomb Raider, Hitman, Battlefield, etc not so much.

However, for games like:
-Project Cars 1/2
-Blackops/MW
-IronSight
-Mortal Kombat, Injustice 1/2 and other combo button mashers
-etc
I've found an absolute difference in the responsiveness I need in order to execute certain maneuvers.
For example:
-I can consistently hit my apex in Project Cars 2 at the most optimum speeds.
-I can consistently pull combo moves, at will, ever time with MK/Injustice 1/2
-I can consistently pull 180's in BO4. Do come backs, and get the jump on a player face to face more often (which means I'm seeing them first).


Overall, this is my experience. I won't play those games without RAL from this point forward. And, I haven't notice any issues with frame rates. For optimal use of RAL you may consider being GPU limited. You can increase resolution or scaling to do so.
How does it compare to say Main3D (Pre Rendered Frames) set to 0? 0 has the least additional latency since AL is only playing with the addional pre-rendered frames to dynamically reduce frame latency on that? I assume they're not compatible without problems.

And is there any benefit to AL if you choose to cap your frames at slightly below your min (for sake of argument)? I noticed in CS it kind of gave my mouse a skipping sensation (inconsistency), but I was altering the Main3D which is probably why.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 12:17 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jonny321321 View Post
How does it compare to say Main3D (Pre Rendered Frames) set to 0? 0 has the least additional latency since AL is only playing with the addional pre-rendered frames to dynamically reduce frame latency on that? I assume they're not compatible without problems.
RAL is a bit more involved then pre-rendering fps. And, has a very noticeable impact that I don't see with FQS changes. For AMD FQS of 0 is none existent.

In a nutshell RAL prevent the CPU from being ahead of the GPU.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jonny321321 View Post
And is there any benefit to AL if you choose to cap your frames at slightly below your min (for sake of argument)? I noticed in CS it kind of gave my mouse a skipping sensation (inconsistency), but I was altering the Main3D which is probably why.
A benefit using RAL when FPS is capped? I don't get the impression that capping frame rates is of particular importance when it comes to RAL. Remember this is about reducing Input/Peripheral latency not pixel latency (g2g, etc).
Try it with Freesync enabled and disabled. You shouldn't notice any difference.

I've read that in certain FPS ranges they noticed the best benefit using it. But in those cases, I assume, are more GPU then CPU limited. IE: running at 1440p instead of 1080p for example.

https://www.techspot.com/article/187...deon-anti-lag/

Last edited by EastCoast; 08-13-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
RAL is a bit more involved then pre-rendering fps. And, has a very noticeable impact that I don't see with FQS changes. For AMD FQS of 0 is none existent.

In a nutshell RAL prevent the CPU from being ahead of the GPU.


A benefit using RAL when FPS is capped? I don't get the impression that capping frame rates is of particular importance when it comes to RAL. Remember this is about reducing Input/Peripheral latency not pixel latency (g2g, etc).
Try it with Freesync enabled and disabled. You shouldn't notice any difference.

I've read that in certain FPS ranges they noticed the best benefit using it. But in those cases, I assume, are more GPU then CPU limited. IE: running at 1440p instead of 1080p for example.

https://www.techspot.com/article/187...deon-anti-lag/

FlipQueueSize apparently doesn't do anything anymore and it was only for dx9 games, Main3D still exists and appears to do something. Surely 0 Main3D also prevents the CPU from behind ahead of the GPU.


In regards to the capping frame rate, I read that capping your frames (to something solidly achievable) effectively gives you 0 pre-rendered frames, not sure in the validity of that. It was RealNC (someone who posts on blurbusters forum)

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/th...365860/page-12

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 03:40 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Jonny321321 View Post
FlipQueueSize apparently doesn't do anything anymore and it was only for dx9 games, Main3D still exists and appears to do something. Surely 0 Main3D also prevents the CPU from behind ahead of the GPU.
FQS (Main3d) of 0 has never did anything for me.


Quote: Originally Posted by Jonny321321 View Post
In regards to the capping frame rate, I read that capping your frames (to something solidly achievable) effectively gives you 0 pre-rendered frames, not sure in the validity of that. It was RealNC (someone who posts on blurbusters forum)

https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/th...365860/page-12
I don't believe you can have 0 latency. But again we are talking about input latency. Not pixel to pixel latency. RAL is designed to help reduce input lag.

Let me link you to a post on the matter though. This person is very knowledgeable about Radeon's Anti Lag (He says he's the creator).


Explanation to Radeon Anti Lag
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/an...2#post-5691435

Quote:
So.... In a normal case the flip queue size should be 1. It is only ever increased if there are stuttering/performance problems. We've tested it a lot and (with all the recent driver enhancements) saw that we don't ever need a flip queue size greater than 1...

About Flip queue size 0... There isn't actually a thing like that, but there is something similar. Let me explain:
A flip-queue size of 1 tells the driver "don't start the CPU work on the next frame as long as there is a fully defined frame which has not been presented yet". Or, more precisely - "don't return from Present() as long as there is at least 1 unexecuted present command in-flight". The same kind of logic describes flip-queue size of 2,3 etc. - but obviously this doesn't work for "0".
There is instead a mode which is can be considered a "flip-queue-size 0" in some sense - I call this mode a "hard sync" mode. Basically, the logic goes: "don't start the CPU work on the next frame as long as there is ANY unexecuted GPU command in the GPU queue", or, more precisely - "Don't return from Present() until the previous frame has fully rendered".

In the first case (flip queue size 1) you get the optimal framerate (GPU is fully utilized), but sub-optimal latency (==2 frame times).
In the second case (hard sync) you get the optimal (minimal) latency (just over 1 frame time), but sub-optimal framerate (GPU is not fully utilized)
So Anti-Lag gives you both - the optimal framerate and the optimal (minimal) latency - the kind that you get in a CPU-bound case. So you can call RAL as having a flip-queue-size of 0.5 maybe?... Lol...
I think this answers what RAL really is.


BTW...if you want to see if for yourself you can do so by pressing CTRL-ALT-L (or whatever digit you assign to it...for whatever reason some had to reassign L to another letter to get it to work correctly). To offset that if that's a problem for you just go into the game profile itself. There you will see the option to enable RAL-
Gaming > "Title of Game" > Radeon Anti-Lag "On".

Once you do that start the game and then hit CTRL-ALT-L twice. Once is a green dot. Second time is the FPS counter (green) that will show you the FPS you would actually need to have in order to get that level of reduce latency. I suggest that you use MSI A/B OSD so you can see your actual FPS vs RAL FPS.

He also explains that here:


Explanation to RAL's OSD (Green FPS Counter which I've not seen discussed in any review BTW)
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/an...2#post-5691423

Quote:
Ok, so I call this number the “EqFPS”, or “Equivalent FPS”. The meaning is as following: assuming you are GPU bound, this number represents the framerate you would need to have w/o Anti-Lag to achieve the same latency as you do with Anti-Lag. A bit confusing, I know - but in the end it will make sense.

You should you also run Fraps (I am guessing you are already doing that) to see both FPS and EqFPS next to each other. When RAL is enabled, if you press and hold the Right Ctrl key - you will effectively disable the RAL. In this case you should see the EqFPS go down and it should now match the FPS number (more or less).

The EqFPS is a just a representation of driver lag. The formula is:
EqFPS[Hz] = 2000 / DriverLag[ms]
Or
DriverLag[ms] = 2000 / EqFPS[Hz]

In a normal (healthy) GPU-bound situation, without RAL and with 1 pre-rendered frame setting - the driver lag should equal exactly 2 frame times (on all platforms - AMD, Intel, NVidia, Android etc.). If you plug this into the above formula, you will see that EqFPS == FPS. RAL reduces the latency, therefore EqFPS increases - and the ratio gives you an idea of just how much lag you have now. EqFPS is not supposed to get larger than 2xFPS, but it can get close to it.

Also note, that in the CPU-bound case, the latency is (in a healthy situation) less than 2 GPU frames, therefore in this case you should be seeing EqFPS > FPS even when Anti-Lag is disabled, and Anti-Lag should have no (significant) effect on this value.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-14-2019, 03:54 PM
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I don't game without RAL at this point.
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