[Hardware Unboxed] It's Over, DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Sharpening Filter Tested - Page 2 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[Hardware Unboxed] It's Over, DLSS is Dead: New Nvidia Sharpening Filter Tested

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post #11 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 11:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
ha ha ha, no.

to begin with the pseudo-raytracing being used in some games doesn't even need RT cores yet looks just as impressive.
You don't need a GPU to do graphics either, so why buy one. A CPU can render it.
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post #12 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
You don't need a GPU to do graphics either, so why buy one. A CPU can render it.
this reminds me more a physx card on die rather a new kind of processor architecture, the thing is now you dont decide if you want to buy a device for exlcusive physx processing, you are just buying it and the video cards price increase
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post #13 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 11:20 AM
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DLSS hasn't impressed me at all. Glad that Nvidia got on board with how AMD is doing it.
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post #14 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by EastCoast View Post
DLSS hasn't impressed me at all. Glad that Nvidia got on board with how AMD is doing it.
They just made it easier to enable a feature they've had since driver 390.XX. I'm glad to see AMD is jumping onboard with AI upscaling using DirectML to compete with DLSS.

https://www.overclock.net/#/topics/1730570

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post #15 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
You don't need a GPU to do graphics either, so why buy one. A CPU can render it.
yeah, i know you meant it as sarcasm but the key point is existing GPUs doesn't need RT cores to get a leg in raytracing, and its already a practical alternative to Nvidia's RTX GPUs.
so what would you prefer, push forward an Nvidia-exlcusive function and shut-off everyone else? or let them develop a different approach for the same result that applies to everyone?

even Physx went through this phase, Havok proved that physics feature isn't Nvidia-exclusive.

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Last edited by epic1337; 08-27-2019 at 11:58 AM.
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post #16 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
yeah, i know you meant it as sarcasm but the key point is existing GPUs doesn't need RT cores to get a leg in raytracing, and its already a practical alternative to Nvidia's RTX GPUs.
so what would you prefer, push forward an Nvidia-exlcusive function and shut-off everyone else? or let them develop a different approach for the same result that applies to everyone?

even Physx went through this phase, Havok proved that physx feature isn't Nvidia-exclusive.
The other method for global illumination is voxel based global illumination which nVidia created. Both AMD and nVidia decided on BVH for DxR when working with Microsoft which isn't a nVidia exclusive feature.

What AMD is lacking is hardware to accelerate BVH. Once AMD releases hardware that's capable they'll be able to enable DxR on all current titles.

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post #17 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
The other method for global illumination is voxel based global illumination which nVidia created. Both AMD and nVidia decided on BVH for DxR when working with Microsoft which isn't a nVidia exclusive feature.

What AMD is lacking is hardware to accelerate BVH. Once AMD releases hardware that's capable they'll be able to enable DxR on all current titles.
not specifically an accelerator strictly for BVH, voxel computation is also used in other things besides dynamic lighting.
this means they'd just need to tweak the cores and a beefier bandwidth (e.g. bigger and faster caches) to increase voxel computation throughput.


edit: to quote someone from reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...racing_patent/
Quote:
The following is my interpretation of the AMD paper, I might be wrong on some things.
The idea of AMD is to add BVH node fetch + BVH intersection (and sorting) + triangle intersection hardware to the texture unit.
So the while-loop of the traversal is run on the shader units, which includes storing the traversal stack in the general purpose vector registers (unlike Nvidia who use special purpose registers in the RT core hardware).
This should give the programmer a bit more freedom: they can choose which child node(s) to traverse and in what order (although I wouldn't know any use case for this).

A big advantage of this system is that it requires way less additional transistors because many of the existing hardware can be reused: BVH can be cached using the texture cache and the traversal stack can be stored in the VGPR registers.
The only big question is whether the shader operations or the shader / texture (&ray tracing) unit communication will become a bottleneck.


On paper AMDs proposed system seems really smart. Nvidia has to rely on developers to use all 3 types of cores (shader + RT + Tensor) in parallel for optimal hardware usage.
No game will ever use the shader / RT / Tensor cores all to the same amount and there are usually a lot of inter-task dependencies so utilization of all 3 cores will never even get close to 100%.

By re-using as much hardware as possible AMD would ensure that as many transistors as possible are being put to use at any time, independent of the task at hand.
On paper this seems like a good idea but we'd should wait to see it in action before we draw any conclusions.

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Last edited by epic1337; 08-27-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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post #18 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
not specifically an accelerator strictly for BVH, voxel computation is also used in other things besides dynamic lighting.
this means they'd just need to tweak the cores and a beefier bandwidth (e.g. bigger and faster caches) to increase voxel computation throughput.
Do you want them to drop all their current work that they focused on GPU accelerated BVH that can be seen with Radeon Rays to work on something nVidia created(and dropped)? I'm sure there is a good reason that both major video card manufacturers decided on BVH when working with Microsoft on the future API(DxR.)

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post #19 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 12:47 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
Do you want them to drop all their current work that they focused on GPU accelerated BVH that can be seen with Radeon Rays to work on something nVidia created(and dropped)? I'm sure there is a good reason that both major video card manufacturers decided on BVH when working with Microsoft on the future API(DxR.)
i edited my post, the commenter i quoted there tells me that their development plan isn't a dedicated accelerator but they're tweaking the existing GPU units to fully support BVH instead.
which means to say, we might be able to get BVH-capable GPUs with very minor changes in the architecture.

so what i said was spot on.

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post #20 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2019, 01:06 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post
i edited my post, the commenter i quoted there tells me that their development plan isn't a dedicated accelerator but they're tweaking the existing GPU units to fully support BVH instead.
which means to say, we might be able to get BVH-capable GPUs with very minor changes in the architecture.

so what i said was spot on.
Again currently AMD is lacking hardware to accelerate BVH as quickly as nVidia's RT cores. A GPU is an accelerator which is used to accelerate BVH(GPU-accelerated Bounding Volume Hierarchy.) Both of their goals are the same to accelerate BVH. DxR isn't exclusive to just nVidia. OptiX is exclusive to nVidia just like Radeon Rays is exclusive to AMD.

From the patent it appears they created what they call a "texture processor" which I've never seen on their previous architectures. So yes they're going to have dedicated hardware to accelerate BVH.
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