[IGN] EA Launches Surprise Cloud Gaming Trial With Four Games - Page 3 - Overclock.net - An Overclocking Community

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[IGN] EA Launches Surprise Cloud Gaming Trial With Four Games

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post #21 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post
EA more than likely just see it as a method of eliminating piracy. They mandated that all their developers have an always online/multiplayer component to all of their games for that very reason and whilst I haven't played any EA games in a while I can't see their position having changed.
While I agree with the general notion of your post, EA is first & foremost, a for profit entity that needs to justify shareholders. And streaming is a significant move away from their business model, which is publishing games. WRT piracy, they've been identifying it as a threat since they entered business decades ago and it has existed and it may still exist in some form with streaming.

Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
It's not LOL.
Alrighty!! But why?

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But there is money to be made by corporations, that's why they jump on it when creating servers from available cloud services is cheap to them.
Wait! You just said it's not. And now you say they can make money from them. Please choose which is it?

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Nvidia, EA, M$+Sony, Google, ... most of these are jumping on cloud gaming since 2018 but there were and are services way older, like 10 years older even that exist or were bought up by these giants.
If you ever tried cloud gaming before when it was free, you would know just how bad it is for the user/customer, doesn't matter that the server is local in your country and at a low network latency, the other latencies add to it and 1080p60 for selected games, the difference to running a game locally is damn obvious unless one plays some chill games that are mostly for consolers as those don't care about snappy responsiveness for 3D FPS view etc.
I'd like to be positive and assume that the issue of latency can be handled via hacks to how games are prohrammed or streamed and hence why these heavyweights are going all in with this.

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There is money to be made especially if M$ and Sony start selling thin consoles aka a glorified smartphone with HDMI port where bulk of heavy lifting is done in cloud with a bad latency penalty which for many of the consoles games in 2D, 3rd person view, etc. doesn't matter that much for the people playing them on consoles.
So just like the entirety of technological advances that are made to suite particular use cases. That's new.

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Renting hardware especially GPUs makes sense for businesses that need to perform compute and are not latency sensitive.
Renting hardware for business makes sense because they can pay for what they use rather than deal with a depreciating asset. It is mainly driven by cost and cost alone.

#2 their debt is insane, even for a "diverse field" company. They cannot even afford to service the debt maintenance let alone make an actual dent in the debt itself. - Internet Stranger
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post #22 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 09:12 PM
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its about the subscription models yo. Games are revenue spikes, they want that sweet sweet sub money between spikes.

and yeah, onsite solutions are pretty much archaic at this point, not to mention massive up front cost, refresh cycle, and never fully utilizing the assets you overpay for.

I'm not an azure shill, i just really hate hardware cycles. Giant rooms full of old hardware that then gets given to Bob & Joes drunken pickup service, who nickles n dimes it out to fund their next meth lab. orrr they just sell it to scrappers n it ends up on fire in Africa.

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post #23 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 01:31 AM
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Yuck. Disgusting. Maybe works for some single player games that don't require really require reaction time... but anything else... just no.

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post #24 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 09:46 AM
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I couldn’t care less what EA does with anything at this point, their entire library is of zero interest.

The best they can do is put all their games on Game Pass or PSNow and hope someone notices.
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post #25 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by huzzug View Post
Looking at the bright side, if these many companies are jumping on it, it must be doable.
Because clearly a bunch of MBAs with no understanding of physics at all can solve this whole "distance" problem.


Quick, lets draft the perfect operational strategy which solves this problem!



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post #26 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 07:46 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by huzzug View Post
While I agree with the general notion of your post, EA is first & foremost, a for profit entity that needs to justify shareholders. And streaming is a significant move away from their business model, which is publishing games. WRT piracy, they've been identifying it as a threat since they entered business decades ago and it has existed and it may still exist in some form with streaming.
Streaming is the ultimate DRM if they can eventually move some of their library entirely to streaming + consoles. Console piracy is minimal and you can't crack a PC game if the game doesn't run locally.

Even if, and this is amazingly ******* rare, the source code leaks games designed specifically for streaming would probably require heavy modification to get them working on your average computer.

Streaming games is also not a particularly far cry from their business model, just one that eliminates piracy and generates more predictable revenue. I also suspect that, knowing EA, they will come up with some kind of subscription model/release cycle that means customers end up paying more for less content.

Quote: Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post
Because clearly a bunch of MBAs with no understanding of physics at all can solve this whole "distance" problem.

Quick, lets draft the perfect operational strategy which solves this problem!

It isn't really a physics problem though.

Input latency tests on stadia show input latency to be ~188ms vs ~100ms for the average PC running games locally. Even that isn't brushing up against theoretical limits and could probably be reduced further.

For many genres of games streaming will probably be fine eventually, if it isn't already. What people should be worried about is numerous services popping up, exclusives requiring subscriptions to play and maintaining numerous subscriptions stealthily increasing the overall cost of gaming.

I suspect it will be much like video streaming. Initially cool, something like Netflix is pretty cheap and provides on demand content. Eventually everyone does it, you need 6 different subscriptions if you want a range of content and you're spending more than you did before for less stuff.

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post #27 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 08:56 PM
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Once EA proves that it's doable and profitable, everyone will be moving to this. It's the future.
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post #28 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post
Streaming is the ultimate DRM if they can eventually move some of their library entirely to streaming + consoles. Console piracy is minimal and you can't crack a PC game if the game doesn't run locally.

Even if, and this is amazingly ******* rare, the source code leaks games designed specifically for streaming would probably require heavy modification to get them working on your average computer.

Streaming games is also not a particularly far cry from their business model, just one that eliminates piracy and generates more predictable revenue. I also suspect that, knowing EA, they will come up with some kind of subscription model/release cycle that means customers end up paying more for less content.



It isn't really a physics problem though.

Input latency tests on stadia show input latency to be ~188ms vs ~100ms for the average PC running games locally. Even that isn't brushing up against theoretical limits and could probably be reduced further.

For many genres of games streaming will probably be fine eventually, if it isn't already. What people should be worried about is numerous services popping up, exclusives requiring subscriptions to play and maintaining numerous subscriptions stealthily increasing the overall cost of gaming.

I suspect it will be much like video streaming. Initially cool, something like Netflix is pretty cheap and provides on demand content. Eventually everyone does it, you need 6 different subscriptions if you want a range of content and you're spending more than you did before for less stuff.
I'm curious where the 100ms of input lag for an "average" gaming PC comes from, it seems high. If we say 60Hz is still average then that's I move my mouse, then 6 frames without the movement go out to the monitor and then the seventh frame finally has it.

There are ways to get 100ms of input lag (use a monitor with 1 or 2 frames of lag and turn on v-sync (not G or Free) and set the graphics higher than your system can handle) but I'm not sure that would be "average" gaming PC?


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post #29 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 08:37 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Darren9 View Post
I'm curious where the 100ms of input lag for an "average" gaming PC comes from, it seems high. If we say 60Hz is still average then that's I move my mouse, then 6 frames without the movement go out to the monitor and then the seventh frame finally has it.

There are ways to get 100ms of input lag (use a monitor with 1 or 2 frames of lag and turn on v-sync (not G or Free) and set the graphics higher than your system can handle) but I'm not sure that would be "average" gaming PC?
I think you are talking about display lag, whereas I am talking about input lag. As in the time between you pressing a button and the ramifications of that physical input being manifested on screen.

That doesn't just include the refresh rate. You have to account for the polling intervals on your keyboard, cpu clock cycles, then rendering and after all that the pre-rendered frames will have an impact as you said (oh and then display lag).

As for the source of the 100ms figure, it was from a stadia review where they measured the input lag on their machine Vs stadia. I read it a while back though, from a quick Google wikipedia states 133ms but lacks citations:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag

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post #30 of 44 (permalink) Old 09-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post
I think you are talking about display lag, whereas I am talking about input lag. As in the time between you pressing a button and the ramifications of that physical input being manifested on screen.

That doesn't just include the refresh rate. You have to account for the polling intervals on your keyboard, cpu clock cycles, then rendering and after all that the pre-rendered frames will have an impact as you said (oh and then display lag).

As for the source of the 100ms figure, it was from a stadia review where they measured the input lag on their machine Vs stadia. I read it a while back though, from a quick Google wikipedia states 133ms but lacks citations:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag
I'm counting the display lag as part of the input lag, and I'm counting input lag as the time from making an action (mouse move seems more critical than a keystroke to me) to seeing it on the screen.

You definitely can have more than 100ms of input lag with a high render queue, v-sync on and a non-gaming monitor adding one or two more frames on the end but I wouldn't call that an "average" gaming PC? More like an average desktop PC being used to play games - not the same thing.


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