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[AMD] Radeon Software Adrenalin 2019 19.11.1 Highlights

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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by huzzug View Post
@WannaBeOCer should be able to confirm?
It's been broken since 19.8.1, 19.7.5 was the last version that worked.

Quote: Originally Posted by treetops422 View Post
idk people have been able to sell their used 7's for months on ebay and buy a brand new 2080 super for like a $50 price difference, don't mean to belittle the potential problems
A brand new 2080 Super doesn't have 16GB of memory but that is a good option for users who just bought the Radeon VII just for gaming which they shouldn't have in the first place.

Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
Radeon VII still has highest potential for bitcoin mining among any other hardware. (4 teraflops in double precision). Thats why its quite easy to sell them. It would be extremely hard to buy them soon.

Aside from problem with Tjunction (which can be solved with WC block), installing an older driver, where OC works - no problem. If we want new features for Radeon VII then we have to report the issue = it will get higher on the priority list for driver dev team.
We've been reporting it since 19.8.1 and they still haven't added it to their known issue list. I don't think they care about it since it's overclocking.

This issue has been on their known issue list since 19.7.3:
Quote:
AMD Radeon VII may experience elevated memory clocks at idle or on desktop.
Along with this known issue since 19.3.1:
Quote:
Performance metrics overlay and Radeon WattMan gauges may experience inaccurate fluctuating readings on AMD Radeon VII.

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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 10:08 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
It's been broken since 19.8.1, 19.7.5 was the last version that worked.
I will try to confirm it with GPUZ. It appears to me that AMD Radeon Settings/Wattman is in 19.7.5 not showing correct values. It indicated 3900MHz in Nier Automata and it was definitely just a display bug, however I could not read the real values off Wattman.

If reading is wrong, it may as well affect the sensors and in that case card should rely on BIOS frequencies.

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 10:43 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
It's been broken since 19.8.1, 19.7.5 was the last version that worked.



A brand new 2080 Super doesn't have 16GB of memory but that is a good option for users who just bought the Radeon VII just for gaming which they shouldn't have in the first place.



We've been reporting it since 19.8.1 and they still haven't added it to their known issue list. I don't think they care about it since it's overclocking.

This issue has been on their known issue list since 19.7.3:

Along with this known issue since 19.3.1:
So we have had.

1. Fiji based cards completely locked out of HBM overclocking when Vega gets released.
2. Standard Vega 56 and 64 cards using the LC bios are crippled by extreme throttling since 19.1.2. Almost right around when VII launches.

3. VII is having problems. Pretty much around the time Navi came to market.



I am starting to smell a rat.

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 11:18 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
I will try to confirm it with GPUZ. It appears to me that AMD Radeon Settings/Wattman is in 19.7.5 not showing correct values. It indicated 3900MHz in Nier Automata and it was definitely just a display bug, however I could not read the real values off Wattman.

If reading is wrong, it may as well affect the sensors and in that case card should rely on BIOS frequencies.
I'm not using Wattman to show values. Along with the core clock underclocking when attempting to overclock the core the performance drop is also reflected in every game and benchmark ran.

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 11:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
I'm not using Wattman to show values.
But the driver has no other choice. So when the data are not correct...

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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Offler View Post
But the driver has no other choice. So when the data are not correct...
The issue isn't regarding correct or incorrect Wattman/overlay readings. I don't even use that garbage overclocking tool. The issue is that the card underclocks when overclocking the core clock with drivers 19.8.1 and newer. AMD hasn't addressed the issue and I don't believe they will looking at the past issues they haven't resolved for the card.

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Alastair View Post
I feel that not enough people are talking about the fact that AMD have broken overclocking on standard Vega's since the release of VII and 19.1.2. Like we jump all over nvidia if you loose 3% fps on a previous generation product with a driver update. But AMD has broken overclocking now on 2 ex-flagships and everyone is tight lipped about it?

I need to make this clear so others can test this and find out for themselves. I'm fully aware people can be lazy and don't want to be bothered with anything these days.
Alastair is talking about broken Vega 64 overclocking when a *LC BIOS* is used on a non LC Vega 64 reference card, even when the non LC card has a high end water block and temps are splendid. So temps and hotspot etc are *NOT* an issue! And since reverting to a very old driver fixes this, well it's very obvious it's driver related. Malicious or not, I don't know.

Specifically, extremely bad throttling and very bizarre performance issues, which only go away if the non LC Bios is used *OR* a much older Vega driver is used (where upon things suddenly work perfectly again).

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 11:45 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Falkentyne View Post
I need to make this clear so others can test this and find out for themselves. I'm fully aware people can be lazy and don't want to be bothered with anything these days.
Alastair is talking about broken Vega 64 overclocking when a *LC BIOS* is used on a non LC Vega 64 reference card, even when the non LC card has a high end water block and temps are splendid. So temps and hotspot etc are *NOT* an issue! And since reverting to a very old driver fixes this, well it's very obvious it's driver related. Malicious or not, I don't know.

Specifically, extremely bad throttling and very bizarre performance issues, which only go away if the non LC Bios is used *OR* a much older Vega driver is used (where upon things suddenly work perfectly again).
CORRECT! THIS MAN GETS IT!

I think it's malicious.

Because a pattern has emerged of AMD breaking something related to overclocking with a driver update very near to the launch of a new flagship product.

Fiji. HBM overclocking worked since launch. Broken with 17.1.1. Close to Vega launch. Amd claimed there were significant changes under the hood of the driver. That it necessitated breaking HBM clocking.

Vega. Vega 56 and 64 owners have been free to use the Liquid edition BIOS for the extra voltage it provides which meant more overclocking available to those who had the cooling capable of taming a 1.25v Vega. (this isn't even mentioning the fact that you can't over volt the standard bios. Only undervolt.) but then 19.2 drivers roll around again right around VII's launch and boom! Normal 56 and 64 owners can't use the LC bios as it just tanks the clocks HARD.

VII. 19.8.2 or 3? I dunno I don't have a VII. Right around the time Navi comes around. Boom. Overclocking broken.

This is a pattern. Happening once I can say definitely maybe a mistake or a bug broke things.

But this is a pattern. Each time an ex flagship getting gimped. Each time something related to overclocking. Each time close to a high profile product launch.

My thoughts? Hey if we can do something to get those guys that are willing to pay 500 600 even 700 dollars for a card, to move on from their old cards a bit quicker and get them to buy our new ones? PROFIT AM I RIGHT? -random driver team member suddenly finds himself promoted.

Amd isn't in the business of making friends they are in the business of making money. And I don't think it is out of the relm of possibility that now that they have had a taste of success with Ryzen and what not. Now they want more. The board wants mkre. And they are pushing to find ways to push sales up.

And if they can break things that weren't "officially" supported in the first place like HBM OC on Fiji and LC bios use on standard cards. Then technically they can get away with it. Cause it wasn't officially supported any way am I right? So let's break features that we don't officially support and condone and get those guys to duml their old hardware quicker.

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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Or they simply spend less resources on older cards when it comes to drivers? Just like the 1080 ti doing terrible in rdr2. AMD is still trying to get navi drivers up to par, new navi fixes might be conflicting with old cards. AMDs drivers department is much smaller then Nvidias. Hopefully all the new sales will change that. I mean really they have some stuttering issues at 1080p on navi, do you really think they are going to waste time on an obscure issue like lc bios on a non lc card right now?

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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 12:21 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Alastair View Post
CORRECT! THIS MAN GETS IT!

I think it's malicious.

Because a pattern has emerged of AMD breaking something related to overclocking with a driver update very near to the launch of a new flagship product.

Fiji. HBM overclocking worked since launch. Broken with 17.1.1. Close to Vega launch. Amd claimed there were significant changes under the hood of the driver. That it necessitated breaking HBM clocking.

Vega. Vega 56 and 64 owners have been free to use the Liquid edition BIOS for the extra voltage it provides which meant more overclocking available to those who had the cooling capable of taming a 1.25v Vega. (this isn't even mentioning the fact that you can't over volt the standard bios. Only undervolt.) but then 19.2 drivers roll around again right around VII's launch and boom! Normal 56 and 64 owners can't use the LC bios as it just tanks the clocks HARD.

VII. 19.8.2 or 3? I dunno I don't have a VII. Right around the time Navi comes around. Boom. Overclocking broken.

This is a pattern. Happening once I can say definitely maybe a mistake or a bug broke things.

But this is a pattern. Each time an ex flagship getting gimped. Each time something related to overclocking. Each time close to a high profile product launch.

My thoughts? Hey if we can do something to get those guys that are willing to pay 500 600 even 700 dollars for a card, to move on from their old cards a bit quicker and get them to buy our new ones? PROFIT AM I RIGHT? -random driver team member suddenly finds himself promoted.

Amd isn't in the business of making friends they are in the business of making money. And I don't think it is out of the relm of possibility that now that they have had a taste of success with Ryzen and what not. Now they want more. The board wants mkre. And they are pushing to find ways to push sales up.

And if they can break things that weren't "officially" supported in the first place like HBM OC on Fiji and LC bios use on standard cards. Then technically they can get away with it. Cause it wasn't officially supported any way am I right? So let's break features that we don't officially support and condone and get those guys to duml their old hardware quicker.
I have a question for you.

Have you tried using "Vega64softpowerplayeditor" (note: this requires the driver "gtk-sharp-2.12.45.msi" for .NET be installed first) and tried copying the exact values the Air Bios uses for all the fields (flash the original Air bios on the other bios switch, then reinstall the current driver, I assume--I don't know if the driver has to be reinstalled or not (with or without Wagnard's DDU), saving them in a text file somewhere, and then loading up the LC Bios and comparing the values that are different? (Not just the voltage limit, power limit (or TDC limits) and temp limit changes?)

Then, have you tried changing the values exposed in the LC Bios to match all of the Air Bios settings, to see if the performance suddenly becomes "normal" again?
Note that you have to restart the driver after any registry entry merge that the editor gives you.

If the performance suddenly becomes normal again, but you find your LC bios is performing exactly like an air bios now, then try changing 'back' one value at a time until you find out what "breaks" it.

You can use ToastyX's driver restarter in the CRU package to avoid rebooting.
https://www.monitortests.com/forum/T...on-Utility-CRU

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Last edited by Falkentyne; 11-08-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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