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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 02:56 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post
Use more ram if it makes browsing faster! I just wish these browsers would get better session managers built in. 10 years ago I used Opera and was able to save windows as a session so I could come back to them later. When you can name,save, and load multiple sessions any time you want, you don't really need to have 40+ tabs open at once anymore.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by xJumper View Post
It's a sign of crappy programing. There's websites that haven't changed at all since 98 and you could view them perfectly on Netscape navigator using 512mb of ram and yet viewing that same site today that hasn't changed on a "modern" browser is using 2gb+ of ram.
Yup. There are a few sites still floating around unchanged from 1997/98 (some universities don't remove academics websites when they retire/move) which worked perfectly on IE/Firebird (old Firefox name) on a system with 24MB RAM. visit those same sites now with a modern browser and each tab with that site in will eat 200+MB RAM. Only way to get anywhere near <24MB RAM is use something like Lynx.


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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 09:50 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
Yup. There are a few sites still floating around unchanged from 1997/98 (some universities don't remove academics websites when they retire/move) which worked perfectly on IE/Firebird (old Firefox name) on a system with 24MB RAM. visit those same sites now with a modern browser and each tab with that site in will eat 200+MB RAM. Only way to get anywhere near <24MB RAM is use something like Lynx.
I'm not saying every megabyte of extra RAM usage is justified, but modern browsers have a lot more going on than Netscape navigator circa 1998. Security features like sandboxing weren't implemented back then, nor were the huge content caches that speed up page loads. Higher res graphics and GPU acceleration take up some space too, so comparing to ancient software isn't exactly fair. Memory prices go down most years, so it's fine if memory usage goes up, provided there is a tangible benefit.
That said, when I use the latest Kubuntu build and see ram usage of just 380MB on a fresh boot(on a system with 16GB), I wonder just how much "benefit" Windows 10 gives me when it uses 8 times that on the same machine. Typing this comment out in Firefox on windows 10 with just this one page loaded and no background/startup apps loaded(except OneDrive and Radeon settings) has me at a whopping 2.8 GB used! That seems a bit excessive.

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 10:55 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post
I'm not saying every megabyte of extra RAM usage is justified, but modern browsers have a lot more going on than Netscape navigator circa 1998. Security features like sandboxing weren't implemented back then, nor were the huge content caches that speed up page loads. Higher res graphics and GPU acceleration take up some space too, so comparing to ancient software isn't exactly fair. Memory prices go down most years, so it's fine if memory usage goes up, provided there is a tangible benefit.
That said, when I use the latest Kubuntu build and see ram usage of just 380MB on a fresh boot(on a system with 16GB), I wonder just how much "benefit" Windows 10 gives me when it uses 8 times that on the same machine. Typing this comment out in Firefox on windows 10 with just this one page loaded and no background/startup apps loaded(except OneDrive and Radeon settings) has me at a whopping 2.8 GB used! That seems a bit excessive.
I largely agree. Program memory sizes jumped when (mostly) everything went 64-bit as well, that cannot be forgotten. But content cache on a 50K page that is just HTML text?

I'm a bad person to worry about RAM, anyway... for my purposes, a system with 128GB is "enough for a medium dataset... maybe".


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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 PM
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2020, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I used Edge before this already just to try and minimize my google footprint and so far this is definitely at least as good as before. It's nice to have the "open image in new tab" option in edge finally.

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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2020, 01:21 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by DiNet View Post
Why are people still crying about ram in 2020? Is there some kind of shortage of ram?
It is a problem when you have several projects going on, each with their own window and many tabs. Hundreds in total.
Is 500MB per webpage/tab open a good idea? Lets see... 500 tabs * 0.5GB = I think my calculator ran out of RAM, 250GB. Not to mention the CPU load in Chrome per each open tab.
Chrome is stupid, it loads everything whether the user is actively using it or it's sitting in background and was never opened in this sessions yet.
Firefox only loads what the user interacts with, yes many tabs still consume some RAM but it can all fit into 4GB with hundreds of tabs any day. Chrome keels over instantly if one tries to load the same session or start using it that way and keep tabs open for projects.

Quote: Originally Posted by qwertymac93 View Post
Use more ram if it makes browsing faster! I just wish these browsers would get better session managers built in. 10 years ago I used Opera and was able to save windows as a session so I could come back to them later. When you can name,save, and load multiple sessions any time you want, you don't really need to have 40+ tabs open at once anymore.
Yeah, I had that in FF too when it worked well in old FF, until those plugins got so slow and unreliable I went away again from that. Opera... not sure I used it that much to load it up like I load up FF. It had cool stuff but poor adoption and eventually died out, now it's a Chrome like everything but FF and Safari. But even Safari is more of a Chrome really, using the same engine. M$ gave up on their engine and uses Webkit/Chrome now too. In the end it's pretty much Chrome vs FF as there is nothing else. FF has done some very bad decisions lately in terms of keeping their old users, killing of most of their plugins for "security" sake and other changes marketed as "great and new" while they have been in older FF for years as an option for user to enable, they just weren't always default.

---

Little test, my FF with hundreds of tabs of not over a thousand lol (ton of YouTube there), <10% CPU usage, 2.25GB.
Chrome, 42 tabs (mostly YouTube), doesn't go under 33% CPU, spikes even close to 50% on opening, well now it's finally under 5% after it loaded it all, 1.58GB now but it was almost hitting 4GB when loading. Playing a single YT video in Chrome is almost 350MB RAM for that tab alone, that is crazy, the whole video when loaded in it's entirety is way smaller than that. The resource management is still abysmal in Chrome and with their 1 process per tab approach it's not gonna get better.

Session managers and tab managers are great, when they actually work and don't slow down the browser as a plugin to a crawl... defeating their entire purpose of making things run faster.

As a web browser for a common person who wants to browse <10 pages at a time and don't save last session. Any simple web browser will do. But for people who want mane windows, many tabs, save their sessions, it's a whole different story when it comes to web browsers.

Also does the new EDGE allow to disable font smoothing/antialiasing/direct write option? Chrome killed that option availability to users years ago and has blurred text since, yuck no thanks. Even previous EDGE has a slightly better font rendering than Chrome but both look bad compared to FF which will not smooth fonts unless necessary, you can read nice sharp non antialiased/blurred font wiki, OCN, etc.
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-25-2020, 02:10 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by ThrashZone View Post
Hi,
Funny you get this info from Yahoo thought they died ?
They are big in japan lol

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-28-2020, 10:20 PM
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https://www.techspot.com/news/79672-...fox-again.html


Google sabotaged FireFox, it works a lot better now that they aren't trying to work with Chrome.

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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2020, 01:38 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by JackCY View Post
It is a problem when you have several projects going on, each with their own window and many tabs. Hundreds in total.
Is 500MB per webpage/tab open a good idea? Lets see... 500 tabs * 0.5GB = I think my calculator ran out of RAM, 250GB. Not to mention the CPU load in Chrome per each open tab.
Chrome is stupid, it loads everything whether the user is actively using it or it's sitting in background and was never opened in this sessions yet.
Firefox only loads what the user interacts with, yes many tabs still consume some RAM but it can all fit into 4GB with hundreds of tabs any day. Chrome keels over instantly if one tries to load the same session or start using it that way and keep tabs open for projects.
Vivaldi does well in this regard. You can set it to load only the active tab in each window, and you can right click non-active tabs and send them to the background.

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